Evergreen Content and Collaborations in Affiliate Marketing- a special “That’s what she said” session with Jessica Bishop

Christen Evans : 0:25

Hi everybody, welcome to a very, very, very special edition of Affiliate Nerd Out that's what she said edition. I'm Cristen Evans. Dustin Howes has asked me to step in to host this. He had a cancellation and this is something that we've been noodling on for a bit. I am the founder and CEO of Spark Partnerships, which is a entrepreneurial agency that helps small brands launch and grow into the affiliate space, focusing on empowerment and education to help them make the best decisions so that they can grow and eventually break up with me. Today, I am joined by not only an amazing affiliate marketer and content creator, but one of my best friends, Jessica Bishop. Jess, it's so nice to have you and so exciting that we finally, after 10 years, get to actually sit down and have a chat like this.

Jessica Bishop: 1:14

Yeah, we used to nerd out in public instead of just, you know, in our many different technology platforms that we communicate through these days, so I'm super excited to be here.

Christen Evans : 1:28

I love that meme. I think you and I have circulated amongst each other a couple of times. Like you know, you're good friends when you're speaking on like eight different platforms and sending each other memes, and you know seven different types of ways of communicating and that's absolutely us between Slack, Instagram, TikTok, email, text and WhatsApp. Did you say Slack too? I don't know, but then a couple of Slack workspaces, right, yeah, we have a relationship that expands 10 years this year. Happy anniversary, Bestie, but let's talk about that. How did we first meet Jess and how has that kind of where are you? Who are you? All of that?

Jessica Bishop: 2:09

Oh well, where should I start? I guess I'll start by introducing myself a little bit more. I'm Jessica Bishop. I run a site called the Budget Savvy Bride, and these days it's more than just a website. It's a full planning resource to help couples save time, money and stress when they're planning their weddings. We have tons of amazing resources, some of them from our affiliate partners, including free principals, downloadable tools and checklists, real weddings that you can browse by budget, and all sorts of helpful things to help couples just get an idea of what they're doing how much it's going to cost and just navigate the process with more ease.

Jessica Bishop: 2:44

So we also have a podcast called the Bouquetos podcast, which will be coming back in January. We're very excited about that, and I also have a bestselling book on Amazon called the Budget Savvy Wedding Planner and Organizer. So that's the short version of me tuning my own more in for a second.

Christen Evans : 3:01

A little bit. Wedding is super interesting because that's how you and I got started in friendship and this whole kind of affiliate marketing journey together. In 2013, we both found ourselves at Shure Sailing Tank in Denver. I was the accounts manager for a now defunct blog called the Brocast Ride and Jessica showed up as the founder editor amazing brain behind the budget savvy ride and while we would technically be considered competitors, we actually built kind of a friendship, friendly competition situation ship out of this, and I think that it's actually it's grown into a lot now that I'm on the agency and management side and you're on the content side, because I think that we really keep each other kind of Fresh and on our toes a little bit but yeah.

Christen Evans : 3:57

I'd love to hear kind of how your affiliate marketing journey with budget savvy bright started and what that has looked like for your brand relationships Over the last ten years.

Jessica Bishop: 4:08

Yeah, absolutely, it's been a journey, as you know. But so when I started the budget savvy bright, it was very much a personal blog, almost like a diary of my own wedding planning journey, and Very quickly I realized sort of a niche that I was filling in the wedding space, and so it grew really organically to a point where I had, you know, friends and family and colleagues telling me like this is a business.

Christen Evans : 4:32

And I was like what do you mean?

Jessica Bishop: 4:32

I'm just like doing something I really love and sharing information and helping people. I can get paid doing this, and so for a while a lot of that and involved working with brands directly and doing sponsored content. And when I first learned about affiliate marketing, I really was kind of hesitant to get started in it because I'm like, oh, like, if someone randomly buys something I'll make like a dollar, like is that really worth my time investing in it? But as. I started doing that a little more and peppering things in over time.

Jessica Bishop: 5:01

I realized how much it could grow, especially with, you know. You know your certain articles ranking really well and reaching a wider audience. I was able to, you know, grow that channel and At the time, in in 2013, I had the opportunity to attend share, a sale think-tank in Denver, which is probably one of my favorite think tanks I've ever been to. It holds a special place in my heart, not just because it was the first one, but it was just an epic experience and I learned so so much during that time and, of course, met Kristin, who's one of my besties. So, yeah, and now here I am.

Jessica Bishop: 5:35

It's been over 15 years since I started the site and it's obviously grown, like I said, far beyond the blog and a affiliate, has outpaced all of our other revenue streams, including, you know, sponsored content, including, you know, display advertising and, you know, I would love to get to a point where I can just do affiliate organic, authentic recommendations over saying like, oh, I'm not gonna rent about this until you were paid for it, you know right. So I just find it's such a more authentic way of sharing things that we genuinely Recommend and authentically want to introduce to our readers and it's been really, really effective. So, yeah, that's I'm. Oh, I'm gonna do it. I love, I love affiliate marketing. We just realized I don't know why this happens on my camera, but it's like the best thing ever. I'm a magician, you guys.

Christen Evans : 6:23

It brings us so much joy and we're like who knows how many times we'll do that.

Jessica Bishop: 6:30

It'll be a few. I apologize in advance, except I don't, because it's fun.

Christen Evans : 6:36

So I, yeah, I think one of the really fascinating things Kind of in your journey, and what was happening with myself as well, I at the Brokehouse Bright is that you know, we didn't see a lot of other bloggers really leaning into affiliate marketing. But now within the last five, seven years and you and I have both both watched this We've now seen these major media partners leaning into affiliate marketing and so it's been a really huge shift of you know, kind of speaking to that fear of like it's, it's I don't know that sounds kind of weird to like now like all in going for it like stage diving, yeah, and and you know, as, as we've seen that progression and as we've seen more and more publishers Enter the space, how has that impacted you and how has that kind of impacted the way that you're approaching Some of your affiliate relationships, kind of knowing that there, that it is a much more competitive space?

Jessica Bishop: 7:31

It's definitely a more competitive land, the landscape these days, and you know now that major media outlets are Competing for the same keywords, it can be a little bit stressful trying to keep up, especially with a small team. We are small business at the end of the day, so it's definitely a roller coaster, but that is the world of online business, I feel like at this point in time. But it's also opened me up to realize how much more of those like more personal recommendations can really factor in, and so we're really trying to lean and heavily into adding that personal experience with things and prioritizing other forms of content beyond just written, and so that's going to be a big focus for us in 2024 is more video, audio, all of that, so very multimedia focused, heading into the future when it comes to affiliate and just publishing in general. Love that, love that.

Christen Evans : 8:26

Let's let's switch gears just for a moment and talk about a couple of the challenges that we see in the space. You know, I know that you and I both talk about FTC guidelines with frequency and that's always been something that you and I have been very Ardent in following and adhering to. You know, when I was creating content. Now, as I'm managing accounts, you know that's something I want to make sure that my affiliate partners are following. You know adhering to the guidelines, and I know that you've always been very Regulated about following those guidelines as well.

Christen Evans : 8:59

They're not as many, you know, rule followers in this space as you and I recently had a Less of a hiccup, more of a volcano, a Russian no, it's not even that big, but like a big, big, big speed bump. That has kind of highlighted something that a lot of a Lot of people in the industry has been, have been talking about recently, and that is the quality of network applications. Now We've heard this, you know, recently on like PMA webinars etc. About how you know there there has been issues with the, with spammy applications coming through and a lack of quality assurance, but you've actually been a victim of this. Can you kind of tell us a little bit about that and how that's impacted you.

Jessica Bishop: 10:20

Yeah, I have to use my fun camera effect for this, like thumbs down for that experience. Sorry y'all. Yeah, so I actually did have an issue that happened around this time last year. Actually, I was Contacted by a member of staff from a affiliate platform or network To. They reached out basically to Question me about why I was sending fraudulent traffic to some of the merchants on their platform and I, being, like, the biggest rule follower like I'm, an any a gram one, if you know anything about that like like integrity is like so important to me.

Jessica Bishop: 11:06

I was taken aback and so shocked and immediately went into panic mode saying like what do you mean? Like explain to get more info. And ultimately, what I ended up discovering, through much back and forth with the network, was that another affiliate publisher application had been submitted on their platform and was accepted onto the platform, who had used a version of an email address that was like the budget savvy bread dot info or something, and like maybe that's bad for me for not buying every single iteration of the domain, maybe I should.

Jessica Bishop: 11:38

But they did not do, in my opinion, enough due diligence in reviewing that affiliates application.

Jessica Bishop: 11:45

You know they listed my, my, that budget savvy bread dot info as an email address.

Jessica Bishop: 11:50

They listed my website as the primary, you know, traffic source for that, and to me it seems wild that you know the platform would allow to separate accounts to be created for the same web property and that there was no sort of checks and balances or due diligence of like, I don't know, installing a script on the website to prove that you own it.

Jessica Bishop: 12:12

You know, and you are the webmaster for that. And so ultimately, I found out that this person who had been impersonating me in some way, shape or form the platform had no way to report to me maybe they had it internally, but they they didn't pass it along to me where that traffic was actually coming from. But this fraudulent person, you know, generated several thousand dollars worth of commissions under that sort of like false profile, and that was very upsetting to me because I hold, like my brand's reputation and integrity, like so, so sacred, and so it was a really disappointing situation, and it's something that I feel really passionate about as a publisher, as an affiliate, of trying to see what we can do as an industry to combat these sorts of things from happening.

Christen Evans : 12:59

Yeah, absolutely. I mean that's that's a huge, it's a huge issue. You know, on the account management side, that's definitely something that I see on a regular basis and it's not specific to any single one network, it's. It is pretty industry wide. But the fact that you know, we see names as big as you know, one major media platform, you know I feel like I saw by just happy Brad comes around, be like you have. Obviously not, because you and I have wouldn't have a conversation leading up to it.

Christen Evans : 13:29

But you know, if it's happening at the major media level, how small, like how nano is it getting? And how you know there there are new affiliate managers out there who don't recognize. You know that you need to do these extra levels of due diligence while you're vetting applications. You know, and that's something that I think we as an industry need to do a better job of educating on but we do need to hold networks accountable for these two, because they're the ones who are really kind of the gateway to being able to form these relationships and form these partnerships. And if we're starting out on a fraudulent level, that continues the stigmatization of this industry and that's something that we've all been fighting so hard against for so long, right yeah?

Jessica Bishop: 14:13

absolutely. One thing I would also say is like I feel like for you as an affiliate program manager, you know, like that, that onus really I feel like should be on the platform, on the network and to do that due diligence before those fraudulent applications can even make it to your desk or to your email inbox. So that's just my little so far.

Christen Evans : 14:33

Well, and this is something you're you're pretty actively involved in the performance marketing association. That's something that we're all kind of working on on the compliance council.

Jessica Bishop: 14:44

Like I said, a rural follower.

Christen Evans : 14:50

So what do you have coming up? Just, I know that you have some cool, cool, cool things that are coming up, or, dear sir and madam? Yeah, the way that we know that every single affiliate account is not addressed directly is the dear sir and madam. Anyway, yeah, I, jessica, what do you have coming up? I think that you have some exciting things on the horizon with your little media empire, so share.

Jessica Bishop: 15:16

We definitely do. Like I mentioned, the bouquet toss podcast is coming back in January. We're very, very excited about that and, as well, we have just recently launched our own vendor directory, which is something that our audience has been asking us for for. I can't even tell you how long the fact that it's taken us 15 years to actually get it done it didn't take us that long to build it and maybe took like a year and a half, maybe two.

Jessica Bishop: 15:39

We bootstrapped it, built it ourselves and launched it this week and we're excited to get it out there. Honestly, it's a great platform to for couples to find prospective vendors to provide the service and products for their wedding day. And it's also an affordable advertising platform for those local service providers. So we're excited to have this kind of new offering in the space and a new way to serve not just our couples but also wedding vendors, for the first time as well.

Christen Evans : 16:08

I'm shocking maybe no one, but I've seen the back end of it, I've gotten a couple sneak peeks of it and I'm so excited about the Jessica, not just because I've watched you build it and I've watched you kind of iterate this, but because I've watched you iterate, like everything that you've done with the budget, sappy Bride and with the K-Tas.

Christen Evans : 16:25

And this directory is going to be so amazing from not only the perspective of vendors who get to use it, but just the capabilities that it has in really connecting with couples who, like planning a wedding is not easy, you know, and I think that that is something that's severely underrated is, you know, people get engaged and then it's like what do we do?

Christen Evans : 16:48

You know, and the majority of time they're getting input from like so many different channels, so many different people who all, so many people, have opinions on a wedding and so being able to have a resource, not only where you can get educated on like how do you even start planning this thing, but when, where you can get connected with vendors who are going to be part of that super personalized day, that super personalized experience being connected with them and being able to build that relationship with them, because it all kind of comes back to relationships. I mean, whether you're in affiliate marketing or whether you're working in weddings, you know you want somebody who you trust and who is credible to be working with you in that kind of huge moment in your life. So, so excited about this directory, jessica, I think it's going to be absolutely incredible. If you're a wedding vendor out there, holler at it, because it's right now is a great time to get in before it blows up.

Jessica Bishop: 17:41

So I'm excited, yeah, and for anybody who might happen to watch this, you can find it at directorythebudgetsavvybridecom. Slash join, I think, is where, like the actual registration page is.

Jessica Bishop: 17:53

So we're really excited about it, excited to get it out there, and future plans maybe hopefully early 2024, we want to launch a referral program for it as well. So bringing that affiliate side like rising tide lifts all share the success. Let's grow together. That's kind of the vibe we're going for, Maybe like sort of like democratizing, like the wedding industry and, like you know, sharing the love, because it's an industry all built around love. So I'm super excited about that. And I have to do this again Because I'm excited.

Christen Evans : 18:27

So oh, dustin has a question as a merchant reaching out, what is the best subject title and start of an email to get your attention? That is a great question, certainly, as program managers you know it is. It's not easy doing outreach all the time and sometimes it can you know, just getting that foot in the door is a lot. And certainly on the publishing side you get so much, lots of alum, so much, so many emails. So yeah, can you share a couple of you know tips and best practices to really help kind of capture your attention and be able to move forward in those conversations?

Jessica Bishop: 19:04

That is a great question. I don't know that I've ever particularly paid close attention to email subject titles, but I do think actually addressing me by my name or referencing our website and why you think our website is a good fit for your particular merchant or client that you're representing is always a great thing. Obviously, relevancy is so, so important when it comes to promoting affiliate offers, and so occasionally I'll get stuff that's just completely not related in any form and I can find a way to relate a lot of things to the wedding planning process. There's registry, home stuff, there's travel for honeymoon, everything involved in the wedding day from flowers, dresses, rings, whatever gifts, right. But sometimes it's just way off the wall and I'm like why, why do you think this is relevant? So relevance is definitely key.

Jessica Bishop: 19:57

Outlining why you think it's relevant and yeah, I think I can't say I think maybe like having something in the subjects line that's like new affiliate program invitation or something like that that makes it stand out would probably be my best advice, because we do get a lot of emails that aren't just invitations but also updates from all of our current partners, and so our inbox for our affiliate stuff is completely. I mean, I've got Gmail filters on filters on labels, on folders, and it still feels unmanageable at times. At this point, I think we have closed at 500 different programs that we work in, which sounds insane, but we have a very good system. So, but the email thing is a lot.

Christen Evans : 20:48

Yeah, that's super true, and one of the things that you've implemented and I hope you don't mind that I share this, but I think that it's really helpful is that you have a form where partners can just submit information to you. And, as somebody who works with you with frequency, that's so great for me because, as my team and I are able to build a regular cadence of oh, we know that this promo is coming out we're able to just submit that information to you, and that, to me, is really helpful. I love that and, as somebody who has seen your systems like this chaos Gremlin loves the mastermind behind it it's so helpful Giving mastermind.

Jessica Bishop: 21:31

It's giving mastermind. I'm a big fan of building those systems like the forms. We have a whole database and ClickUp we use to manage our project management stuff, and that is the only thing that keeps my head on somewhat straight. So when our merchant partners take advantage of those things that we provide them, we appreciate it so much because it really helps our workflow, especially working with a very small part-time team.

Christen Evans : 21:57

Yeah, it helps keep you nimble some of those automations. So, actually, while we're talking about automations because I feel like you're always kind of on the floor of this let's talk your tech stack. What's that look like these days?

Jessica Bishop: 22:09

Oh my gosh, I could literally nerd out about this forever. Yeah, clickup has been a huge game changer for us. We use it for everything in our business from the content calendar, the editorial production calendar, to managing all the affiliate relationships to our podcast production process, and it's beautiful that it can connect everything. It's almost too powerful. In some ways, I feel like I've gone a little bit too far and we had to reign it back in a little bit, but I'm a huge, huge fan. It's been so great, especially for collaboration, even outside of our team.

Jessica Bishop: 22:44

We can invite people to see certain things. So obsessive ClickUp, truly. We also still use Airtable for certain things. I'm trying to think we have social scheduling tools that we use later. There is a great Instagram story tool that I feel like people still don't really know a lot about, called Sturrito. It is the only thing I've ever found that lets you auto publish your stories to Instagram. I don't know if that's possible anywhere else. I've been using Sturrito for years. I feel like people don't know about it. I should probably be promoting that as an affiliate, to be honest.

Christen Evans : 23:16

But let me know if they need an affiliate manager. Yeah, yeah, I will.

Jessica Bishop: 23:22

It's a great platform and it's really helped us to schedule and pre-batch things, which is so great when we're working with such a small, lean team. Like I said, I'm trying to think what else. Oh my gosh, canva, hands down. I went to school for graphic design y'all Like I got to be a thing in graphic design and 99.9% of the time I'm going to use Canva over any of my Adobe suite, even though I pay for both.

Christen Evans : 23:48

It's so great and it's accessible for chumps like me and it's amazing. I love Canva and Taylor Swift's merch team apparently. So you see, Taylor Nation can do it. We love her girl. We just don't love the merch. Yeah, Canva is number one. What are you using to track kind of affiliate numbers?

Jessica Bishop: 24:16

Oh my gosh. Yes, this is so important. So I use a platform called Affilimate, which was built by an incredible gal named Monica oh gosh, her last name is, I'm drawing a blank, but she's amazing. Affilimate is an amazing platform. It syncs everything. Dustin's putting his Canva affiliate link on.

Christen Evans : 24:35

We set this up for him. I hope you get that. You get that coin.

Jessica Bishop: 24:38

You got that dude.

Christen Evans : 24:41

But yeah so.

Jessica Bishop: 24:42

Affilimate is this incredible platform that can aggregate all the data from all of our different affiliate platforms that we're a part of, so Sharecel, a1, m-pack, cj, all of them, like they're all in there, and so it pulls everything into one place. It gives us really actionable data because we can see on a page level, like which pages are driving the most of our affiliate sales, what the click-through rates are, we can see when content is rising or falling in the ranks or in revenue. So it gives us like really easy eyes on what kind of needs to be tackled for updates or optimizations. And it's just a great way to do reporting because you can get that kind of like overall view all in one place. I'm such a big fan I've been using it now for probably a year and a half and it has changed so much for us, for the affiliate management side of things.

Christen Evans : 25:36

I love that. I love that and data really helps tell the story and helps you make the best decisions about your business and about, like kind of your content roadmap going forward. So I love that, anything that can support you in that. What are you doing for conferences next year? Do you have any idea?

Jessica Bishop: 25:55

That's a great question. I'm still like I'm looking at my flights for Vegas. I really want to come to ASW. I've been on the I guess advisory board for many years and so I always love going to that event just because it's such a huge event with so many people, so many connections to you made, new and, you know, rekindling with old friends in the industry. So I really love attending affiliates on I'm not sure yet what other affiliate specific events I'm going to be going to next year.

Jessica Bishop: 26:27

Last this year I went to PI live for the first time, which was also very great. I enjoyed that in in Miami very much and then I also this year and I might try to go depending on the dates for next year because I spend my partner and I spent the summers in the UK because he's British. So this year we went to an event called affiliate gathering in the UK and work and yeah, it was really cool. It was very intimate and it was cool to be around a bunch of Brits and there was actually people from all over the place who were there, so that was a really cool experience.

Jessica Bishop: 26:59

Yeah, a London boy exactly. So it was cool to experience my first affiliate event on the other side of the pond, so that was really cool. But yeah, so far I think I'm thinking affiliate summit and then on the wedding side of things, I'm hoping to go back to wedding MBA, which I just attended last week in Las Vegas.

Christen Evans : 27:17

Yeah, you had a good time there. It looked like so much fun I saw you know. Of course, I'm still friends with a number of people who are in the wedding industry and so I get kind of like stalking the like seriously through you guys on Instagram for those moments Outside of wedding. What else you got going on next year, jess?

Jessica Bishop: 27:36

I'm seeing Taylor Swift three times in Europe.

Christen Evans : 27:42

Yeah, I feel like we can't gloss over that. So you and me and a couple of other women are going in Paris in May. When else are you going?

Jessica Bishop: 27:50

I'm going in London in June with my mom and my two sisters, and then I'm going to Milan in July with another couple of girlfriends from the wedding space. So yeah, it's a very Taylor summer.

Christen Evans : 28:09

It's a very cruel summer, but like it's not going to be cool at all it's going to be cool and I love it.

Jessica Bishop: 28:14

I'm a OG Swiftie.

Christen Evans : 28:16

I mean, I grew up outside of.

Jessica Bishop: 28:17

Nashville. So I was listening to her back in like the early country days.

Christen Evans : 28:21

So yeah, I mean when I started getting into her I was like, oh my God, I know I can speak to Jess about this like immediately and that's super fun. It's been really fun this year, especially as she's like kicked off the tour. We've talked about the business side of it a couple of times, so this is kind of how I want to wrap this. We've talked about the business side of it and how cool it's been to kind of watch like this special interest of ours also interlope with like this other thing that we love, like SEO and affiliate and like marketing and all of that. I what is like one of your big standout moments that she's accomplished this summer as far as kind of like her mastermind marketing brain.

Jessica Bishop: 29:04

Oh my gosh, I feel like I thought I think it's been so interesting recently with her new relationship when Travis Kelsey we were freaking out over the numbers of, like, the increase in Jersey sales of his Jersey after she attended that first chiefs game. I think that is wild and like. Also, you know there are Basically affiliate marketers, content creators, who are probably making a full-time living off of promoting the clothes that she's wearing out on the street Right like, there's a great account called Taylor Swift styled, which I follow religiously not that I can afford any of the stuff, but it's fascinating. And, yeah, she's been documenting Taylor's outfits for years and it's just so cool to see and she's using affiliate partnerships to Generate revenue from sharing.

Christen Evans : 29:49

Taylor.

Christen Evans : 29:50

Swift's outfits when she's generated. She's using affiliate links for friends of ours too, which is really fun. So she's actually the last couple of chiefs gear that she has been promoting. She's been using fanatics links and because she was previously using a sub network and the team you know was like, hey, this is a better relationship, which is another thing that you know. Again, relationships like that all matters. But yeah, it's been really fun to kind of watch, watch, use, worlds of ours kind of intersect and interlope. Um, dustin asked if you are speaking at any events next year.

Jessica Bishop: 30:26

Oh well, I don't have anything officially booked yet, but I'm hoping to submit for wedding MBA. I don't? It's probably too late for ASW, huh.

Christen Evans : 30:35

Probably Um yeah, that they just open submissions for think tank.

Jessica Bishop: 30:41

Oh, interesting. Maybe I'll do that. It would be beautifully full circle to come back after a decade and speak at the event that introduced me to affiliate marketing. Maybe we should talk about it, yes.

Christen Evans : 30:51

We should that's a great idea stay tuned, sure as I'll, although it might conflict with my multiple Taylor Swift shows over the summer.

Jessica Bishop: 30:59

It's like before.

Christen Evans : 31:01

Paris, so we could go from Chicago.

Jessica Bishop: 31:05

Let's talk about it.

Christen Evans : 31:06

Let's talk about it.

Jessica Bishop: 31:07

Taylor is a living case study of affiliate marketing. So true she's a mastermind Truly.

Christen Evans : 31:14

Um, oh, dustin says that storito does not have an affiliate program. Dustin, it's sass, it's all. You, babe, go for it. Um, well, just, I'm gonna call it for the day. Um, I am so, so, so glad that we got to do this. Um, thank you so much. Um, you're amazing and wonderful.

Jessica Bishop: 31:34

How can people get? Uh, get ahold of me so you can visit the budget savvy bridecom. If you want to email me directly, I'm Jessica at the budget savvy bridecom. We're on all the social platforms instagram, youtube, starting to get started with tiktok, um x, twitter, whatever they're calling it these days. We're. We're in all the places, um. And, of course, our podcast, which is coming back in january.

Christen Evans : 31:57

So yeah, and if anybody out there has somebody in their life who's getting engaged this holiday season. Since engagement season is right around the corner, don't forget to pick up a copy of the budget savvy planner wedding planner. Yes but it's savvy wedding planner and organizer.

Jessica Bishop: 32:14

It is a mouthful and the subtitle is even longer. I don't even remember what the subtitle is, it's so long available on anaclon and at your barns and noble.

Christen Evans : 32:23

Um, so pick it up and make sure javis gets some of those Uh book royalties. Um, yeah, just say thank you so much for joining me today. It was a pleasure. Yay, Uh, and have a wonderful weekend. Thanks everybody for the questions. Um, it's been a pleasure.