Dustin Howes: 0:27

Hey folks, Dustin Howes here, welcome to Affiliate Nerd Out. I am your Nurturator. Dustin Howes, spread that good word about affiliate marketing. You're going to find me here on LinkedIn Live every Tuesday and Thursday at 12.15 Eastern or Pacific time, so put it on the schedule and come stop by. Vicki, you got me ruined today. I don't know what happened. My guest today, vicki Danielson, over at TV Scientific. Thanks for joining me in the Nerditorium.

Vikki Danielson: 1:05

Nerditorium love it. Thanks for having me and yeah, you're going to give me the giggles now.

Dustin Howes: 1:11

Well, I didn't do it on purpose. I didn't have my protein shake this morning or breakfast and it's showing immediately in this episode, so unfortunate for all the viewers out there that are here live. But if you are here live, please stop by into the chat room and hang out with us. Give us a question. I have a new segment called Question of the Day. Have you ever used TV Scientific? I want to know. Vicki wants to know. If you are in the know, jump in that chat, drop us a line, but without further ado. Here, vicki, who are you?

Vikki Danielson: 1:53

Who am I? I am Vicki Danielson. I am from England but now living in the US of A in a place called Amelia Island, which is North Florida. My background is completely an affiliate marketing Go Affiliate.

Dustin Howes: 2:10

Go.

Vikki Danielson: 2:10

Affiliate and crossed the bridge last year to join TV Scientific, which is a connected TV platform, and then started doing some affiliate stuff over there too. So working out, staying in the realm.

Dustin Howes: 2:23

Fantastic, great. I'm going to drop a link to Vicki's profile in the chat, so come, stop by if you want to get a hold of her and learn more about what TV Scientific is and how to work with them. If you would like to be in Vicki's seat over here, go to dustinhowes. com, slash nerd and drop an application. I would love to talk to more folks, especially on the publisher side, which is why I'm so excited about today's episode. We don't get a lot of publishers in this seat and Vicki was gracious enough to come by and tell us all about what's TV Science to be doing and who are you servicing out there? Let us know, vicky.

Vikki Danielson: 3:08

The PolicierC is where it's at. So we are a tech partner that traditionally we were modeled to be like a Facebook or a Google Ads console where brands could come in and buy connected TV on a CPM. That's still very much alive. We even have a self-serve platform, but in June of last year we started doing this through the affiliate ecosystem. The why behind that is because most CTV platforms out there are either tie-in brands into large monthly minimum spend levels or lengthy contracts.

Vikki Danielson: 3:41

So we saw this gap where we wanted to be able to kind of shake up the CTV space and be able to offer brands and apps of all sizes the ability to figure out TV and to measure it. So we found this gap and we integrated across affiliate networks and we're going through affiliate programs now and working on a cost per outcome model.

Dustin Howes: 4:03

Cost per outcome. Love that, we'll get back to that. Let's start a step before, though. What does CTV stand for and what is it?

Vikki Danielson: 4:12

Yeah, so you connect to TV. Think of that as being the big glass screen that sits in the family lounge that you will gather around. You've seen those as you're streaming content. So if you're connected to the internet, we are powering brands putting them in those 15 or 30-second commercial spots that you see as you're streaming content.

Dustin Howes: 4:33

Okay, fantastic. And so this integrates with Amazon Fire Stick and then on Hulu and Netflix. Whatever you might be, you got it.

Vikki Danielson: 4:44

The best way to think of it is CTV being the big glass screen, and then another one for you, ott that stands over the top and that incorporates any other device in which you can also stream content. So think cell phones, laptops, desktops, any other device in the home. So, no matter what the device is, if you're streaming content, we can put brands in those 15 or 30-second spots.

Dustin Howes: 5:06

Wow, okay, I always thought over the top was Sylvester Stallone's best movie arm wrestling for the custody of his child in the 80s.

Vikki Danielson: 5:17

It was a great movie.

Dustin Howes: 5:20

Everybody go watch that. I'm going to put it on the chat Like mandatory If you haven't watched over the top, you have to go watch it. All right, tv Scientific. Let's talk about this name. Where does it come from and where did you guys? How did you guys land on this?

Vikki Danielson: 5:36

Mainly the clues in the name. It's because we are very, very, very scientific about TV. See what we did there. See what we did there.

Dustin Howes: 5:46

Wow.

Vikki Danielson: 5:46

TV Scientific. We are the people that follow the data and let the metrics guide us in terms of measurements. So that's where that came from.

Dustin Howes: 5:56

Beautiful. All right, I dropped that link in the profile now for everybody to find where Vicky is. Tell us more about this process, of how you guys work. Traditional affiliates people are either shopping on their phone or through the computer and clicking on links and going to websites making purchases. Now how do you guys interact in this process for the folks that didn't end up buying?

Vikki Danielson: 6:28

Yeah, it's good question because there's no click involved when you're watching the TV ad, right? So how are we measuring this? So everything is done. The whole tracking piece is done through a deterministic match of the IP. So imagine you're sat on the couch and you see that ad. When we put brands there, we are getting the IP address passed back to us from all the streaming providers. They think you who loop, you got discoveries of the world.

Vikki Danielson: 6:53

So they are telling us that this household saw this ad right down to the timestamp log level. We then work with brands, either through pixel implementation or post-back, or within some affiliate networks. We're in the master tag too, and no dev work is needed. But whatever the integration, what brands are doing is they're passing us back all conversion data and we're then doing a deterministic match on the IP. So we can now see if we delivered an ad on Tuesday, the brand sees a conversion on Friday. If that falls within the attribution window that is set by the brand, then that's when TV scientific will be like hey, we're going to claim that sale on our outcome. So it's all done through IP match currently.

Dustin Howes: 7:36

Gotcha Okay. So it's not necessarily like a last click model, but if you guys set up, if there is another affiliate in this transition, they drove the traffic to that site. But now you guys are essentially, if you get watched now, you become that last click essentially.

Vikki Danielson: 7:55

So, yeah, there's definitely some guardrails that we can put up for brands, so they you know the double dipping doesn't get out of control there, so we can do a few different things. So we always recommend that we reduce the attribution window down for TV scientific because to get ahead of that overlap as much as we can.

Dustin Howes: 8:13

Okay.

Vikki Danielson: 8:14

Because if we go back to that couch and somebody's that watches the ad, we know they're not getting up, going over to the TV and buying, right, we don't come through the TV. Yeah, so we know that all these conversions that are going to be coming through other channels, so, whether that's you know, search social affiliate, interesting enough, we don't see other affiliates in the stream too much. There's not that much overlap, less than 5%, which shocked me, but it's minimal.

Dustin Howes: 8:40

So what we do is.

Vikki Danielson: 8:40

We work with brands to say you know that, we know there's going to be overlap. We get there's going to be overlap. But let's work with you to understand the math, to make sure that whatever CPA we land on, or CPL or CPI, whatever the metric and the attribution window makes sense for the brands, based on their customer acquisition costs and what the data is telling them internally.

Vikki Danielson: 9:01

So we do sit super close with brands and the analytics team to the data to make sure that the setup is just never said it and forget it. Right, it's going to be. Let's see what's happening and let's pivot where we need to in order for this to make sense for everyone involved.

Dustin Howes: 9:17

Fantastic. It sounds like you guys are pretty flexible. You're dropping a lot of CP blanks in there, but one thing that you guys like to call it is CPO. Can you explain what CPO is for those that aren't very familiar with this?

Vikki Danielson: 9:34

Yeah, so what we try to do is be more encompassing, because the O is really the outcome. So what is it that is important for the brand to measure? Is it an action, a sale, a purchase? Is it a lead like form completion? Is it an install? Is it an in-app purchase? Whatever is that important KPI or metric for the brand is what we can look to set up their affiliate CTV relationships through, so it could really be any event that's of interest to the brand.

Dustin Howes: 11:01

Okay got you and your flexibility is just based on each client. Like I remember trying to work with you when I was over at People Connect and we were trying to get to that deal, to make it happen. We didn't end up getting to that finish line, but I remember like you guys working really hard with us and our team to try to get there and it seems like you have a really great mindset that a lot of publishers out there don't.

Vikki Danielson: 11:31

It is really honestly. We tried to be uniform and, you know, try to put some thresholds out there. But we work case by case with each brand, because they're set up so differently and depending on your vertical, the category, even internal politics. You know where does that budget pot sit? Who's got ownership of?

Dustin Howes: 11:49

it.

Vikki Danielson: 11:49

We're kind of crossing into the TV. Pro-malic land as well. We've got analytics team involved. We've got the affiliate team involved, so it's about working with the brands to really understand how we can support them and help them, knowing the internal navigation that they have to do on their side.

Dustin Howes: 12:06

Okay, and so your guys' revenue model for how you guys work with companies originally wasn't in the affiliate space, it was working with folks on a CPM basis, right?

Vikki Danielson: 12:19

It was yeah. So we were built to model like a Facebook or a Google ad console where brands could come in direct buy on a CPM and we have self-server available too.

Vikki Danielson: 12:28

That part of the business is still very much alive. And yeah is great stuff. The affiliate offering we started in just June of last year. So that's where we're trying to shake up the CTV space and talk with performance marketers, because a that's where all the cool people are and me, you know we want to show that we've got skin in the game too. You know how many where our mouth is and say, hey, you know we can, we can make this work for you.

Dustin Howes: 12:51

So yeah, man, it is just so smart. When I first had the conversation with you, I didn't know this product exists, what you guys were doing, and it blew me away that you guys were even considering working on a Cpo basis. Essentially I Didn't expect that and you guys just blew me away trying to work with us. It was. It was such a pleasure working with you. I know we didn't get to the finish line before I ended up leaving, but I'm gonna have more brands for you eventually. So I Intipate having this conversation many times over in the future, but your team seems to be growing as well over on your guys' side.

Vikki Danielson: 13:38

Yeah, so now we've identified that there's a there which we didn't know at the beginning, right, could we make this work?

Vikki Danielson: 13:45

It was a big question mark, but the good news is we figured out. Figured it out. It's the secret source. We've got hundreds of brands that are live or that have tested with us now and we're really starting to make that impact. So we we definitely built out the team on our side on all aspects, whether it's the account management, the yield side, even even on their partnerships team as well. So we want to talk to as many brands as we can and help educate them on how Connected TV can work through affiliate and help them master the model team.

Dustin Howes: 14:12

Fantastic, and you're mentioning networks there. Does this, does your guys's Integration, work with every platform, every network out there, or is it very specific to just like some of the major ones?

Vikki Danielson: 14:27

We work with most of the major, well, all most. All do you think most all, I'm gonna say all.

Dustin Howes: 14:34

I'm not gonna say all you can't tell me you're integrated with 50 of them like.

Vikki Danielson: 14:41

We'll go back to most, so most of the affiliate networks, and, honestly, we've got dedicated teams at the networks that understand the partnership and that can help both agencies and brands we've set in it up to because you know whether it involves adding you know, tv trackers or action IDs or Separating out what we're doing from the rest of the program. The goal, though, is to show up like any other publisher in the reporting interface that brands are used to seeing, so we do do that. We pass all conversion data back into the networks.

Vikki Danielson: 15:11

Write down to the timestamp log level. And then, of course, we do have on our side all of their TV Reporting that we can provide as well. That's gonna show more granular breakdowns of any AB testing we're doing, give more insights into audience targeting segments and, yeah, all of the you know breakdown by streaming platform to okay, got you.

Dustin Howes: 15:35

Follow-up question like the TV, is it has to be a streaming System like Hulu, or can it be like a traditional cable?

Vikki Danielson: 15:42

So right now we're focused on the connected TV, so has to be the internet. We are looking to you out to go elsewhere, though the future holds lots of bright lights for us.

Dustin Howes: 15:53

So right now, the focus is on connected TV okay, all right, so you're connected with all the major networks, even have teams Connected within those networks that know how to work with you, those networks. What if you're outside of that base? Is there's some kind of API, like there's a brand that really wants to work with you? Do they have to be on one of those networks?

Vikki Danielson: 16:17

Okay, that's, that's the good news. We we went through the affiliate network, so obviously through the affiliate teams and performance marketers. That's where they manage most of their programs. But we can also work direct on a pure CPA model as well, so we can do a direct IO and, you know, set up the track in and give them direct access to our CPA dashboard. It's on our side.

Dustin Howes: 16:36

Okay, it just seems a lot cleaner going through an impact or something like the tracking attribution that you trust right.

Vikki Danielson: 16:44

Yeah, brands decide, you know, based on their setup. Okay, if it takes a long time to get you know a new vendor on board it, you know we plug into affiliate programs, we join the terms that sit there and it's a lot easier to facilitate payment through that route as well. But you know we can work in all different capacities. So it depends on the brand and what their preference.

Dustin Howes: 17:04

Okay, gotcha, well speaking networks. I'm gonna drop my quick sponsor of the day Right in here, since there's a great segment. It is impact. Impact is the solution in the affiliate program world that you need to scale. I absolutely love their platform and bringing my programs to them been my go-to season for like the last 10 years, especially in the Sass space and B2B space. Absolutely love them, integrate seamlessly with your entire marketing flow and Bringing you that real increment of value that you're looking for. So go to Dustin howse, comm slash impact. If you want to support what I'm doing here on affiliate, nerd out, go to dustinhowes. com/ impact, grab yourself a demo. I am a paid affiliate of this network, but you will help support me by grabbing yourself a demo. So please do so. And Continuing on and switching gears you guys are all about growth marketing on your guys's website and I want to learn more about what growth marketing is. Can you explain it a little bit more, vicki?

Vikki Danielson: 18:17

growth marketing. Yeah, I look on Google. Really the process and this ties back to scientific, to you right, it's using data To gain insights, to make decisions. It's gonna help your company grow. So it really is about, you know, tapping into channels and to partnerships. It's gonna enable you to grow to keep your customers coming back, to keep them loyal and to just keep growing.

Dustin Howes: 18:45

Beautiful, okay. And growth marketing To me is anything that you are doing in the digital marketing space to grow your company right. So you being that we're in the affiliate realm and we're nerds about affiliate, how does growth and affiliate really coexist in your mind?

Vikki Danielson: 19:06

Yeah, this is a really interesting one. And this comes back, I feel, to brand politics, like internal navigation. Does this sit? Does growth sit with the affiliate team? Does it sit with the TV team? Does it sit with the pragmatic team, the offline team?

Vikki Danielson: 19:21

I think the conversations that we have at the brand level and it will vary depending on who our contact is but a lot of the times our conversations do stay within the performance team and the reason for that is is that we can help them measure TV now. That was always a challenge historically, but now we can connect the dots between when the ad was delivered, when the conversion happened and even where that last touch came through, so we can provide a report to brands. It's going to close that loop that they can then layer on top of their existing analytics and make those conclusions and draw insights. It's going to help them know how adding connected TV is impacting the mix overall. So a lot of the times this stays right within affiliate. Even though it's a top of funnel branding and awareness helper, we're driving it all the way through the funnel to the end and we're getting paid and reporting only on those conversions. So that's kind of the mix.

Dustin Howes: 20:18

Wonderful and, speaking of that, like the outcome. You guys are tracking whether or not a end user, essentially at an IP address, is watching that commercial for that product, right? Is there any call to action on those commercials that we're setting up for that end user to be looking for? That is going to tie it back to something, or do they not need a call to action at all?

Vikki Danielson: 20:47

We prefer a really strong call to action because, we only get paid on the conversion.

Vikki Danielson: 20:54

So sometimes we get given creative from teams that have come from the branding team and you know it's all about branding and awareness and we're like you know it's good, but let's get some a strong call to action in that, a prompt. You know the user to take action, so you know whether it's QR codes, whether it's TV codes, whether it's just a sale that's ending. We have best practices that we can provide and work with brands and we also offer creative services that can help tweak end card messaging and make sure that they're really super DR focused.

Dustin Howes: 21:27

Gotcha Okay. So what would be an example of, maybe like an example of a brand that you've worked with in the past that has done really successful, like where would you what would they use for some kind of call to action in a commercial?

Vikki Danielson: 21:43

Yeah, call to actions can be free trials. We work with a lot of B2B marketers that that works well for you know. Sign up now before this offer ends. Tv whatever percent off codes we have QR codes that can be in there and download a free something you know it can be. It can take a variety of different formats. We'll work with the brand to better understand what's going on in their editorial calendar, what you know. We can send traffic to the site all day long, but what's going on on the site that's going to also help keep that conversion coming through. So we work really closely with brands to better understand, you know, if they've got any particular product pushes or sales or whatever's going on internally for them.

Dustin Howes: 22:29

Great yeah, I'm thinking. Lately I've seen a lot more QR codes.

Vikki Danielson: 22:35

Yeah life on TV, yeah, yeah, they're an interesting we always with the QR codes, believe it or not. The scan rate is still pretty low. So, based on how far the couch is from the TV or how far someone can get their cell phone out, but the summary is still pretty low. So we always advise that they're best used for checks and balances and we always run a B tests to, because some streaming platforms will not allow QR codes into the ads. You know they're trying to keep people in their environment. So we always do checks and balances and help brands evaluate, you know, is it worth putting the QR code in there. So it's still still looking at that data and drawing conclusions.

Dustin Howes: 23:16

Okay, funny enough. Like I thought, qr codes like this one appear of my AM checklist that you can click this.

Vikki Danielson: 23:23

QR. I was just about to say do you get a lot of scans on that thing?

Dustin Howes: 23:28

This thing, oh, this guy over here, yeah, absolutely, I get some scans. This goes directly to my ultimate checklist that anybody can check out. Ultimate checklist you know it, you know it. I dig it I dig it, but the QR code made a comeback like it was kind of dying out. And then COVID happened and like everybody's at a distance and QR code just made a lively comeback.

Vikki Danielson: 23:57

Yeah.

Dustin Howes: 23:57

But just yesterday I saw a commercial where there was a character he was just holding up a QR code. He was like oh, I'm still having it and he's holding it up there, and that was a whole commercial just him like pretending like it was so heavy that he couldn't hold it anymore. Wow, yeah. I thought it was pretty clever yeah.

Vikki Danielson: 24:18

That's what I like most about Connect to TV. Honestly. It's just a very different medium to you know banner text link content. It's like the biggest screen in the house. It's when people are focused to surround sounds and you can get really creative with. You know what you're putting in there. And the good thing with Connect to TV content is you can kind of stitch it together and then unstick it kind of like a donut and like swap out things very quickly and very easily to do a ton of A B testing as well, and that's something that can be done very fast. You know you haven't got to go back to an ad agency and pay another $100,000 to get a video tweak. So yeah, that's what's really cool about Connect to TV, and the creative to those 15 and 30 second ads can play around with them and have a lot of fun.

Dustin Howes: 25:05

So smart. So if QR codes aren't working like at the highest of level, what is working is it. Is it vanity codes? Is it a unique URL? What is the call to action that is working for it right now?

Vikki Danielson: 25:20

We're doing a ton of testing and it really varies by vertical and category as well. So get in touch, we'll let you know what's working in your vertical or your category. But it's just you know we do drive to some fanate URLs. The TV off codes do pretty well, given it a timer too like, have you ever seen those timers, these off-arends, things like that? There's lots going on that we're playing around with to see what drives the best conversion for brands.

Dustin Howes: 25:50

Awesome. That's some great insight. I love the flexibility that you guys have. And what about with brands themselves, like is there any verticals or niches that are particularly this works? Well. I can't imagine this works great for like a B2B SaaS product. It does, though it does it.

Vikki Danielson: 26:15

Yeah, boston, the Miffs today.

Dustin Howes: 26:16

That's wild.

Vikki Danielson: 26:18

So we have those opportunities for most verticals because of the charging that we can apply.

Vikki Danielson: 26:24

So we have integrations with the oracles and live ramps of the world where we get an access to over 15,000 audience segments that we can tap into as well as contextual packages that are available from the streamers themselves. So B2B, it works really well for us. There's some of our top performance, you know FinTech, direct to consumer, e-com, retail, the ones, the two verticals I feel that we've had the most difficulty. Where I haven't you'll understand why when I explain is those actions that are further down funnel. So for travel, most affiliate programs, as you know, it's not on the book end, it's on a completed stay or on a completed flight.

Vikki Danielson: 27:02

And for us, where TV scientific are putting our own money into buying the media to then back out, it's gonna take too long for us to figure out and optimize, you know, to see a conversion that far down funnel. So we're not willing to, you know, spend $500,000 before we see enough conversions to know Is this gonna back out? It's just too risky for us. So we do work with travel brands and we ask them to move the funnel, move the payable event up to like a booking, if they're able to.

Dustin Howes: 27:31

I see, okay.

Vikki Danielson: 27:32

Similar like home services or like flooring, as an example, they're not paying out on the book end, they're paying out on the installation. So again, we can't wait for some crew to show up at the home and fit a whole floor to get payment, because we could have wasted and spent a ton on media that didn't work. So we need a higher signal to know okay, we'll buy a media here, this is working, let's buy more like that, you know. So that's the one thing that we look at in terms of the payable events and just making sure that they make sense. But B2B is a real good one for us All those awkward to recruit for programs like CBD and sexual wellness and B2B. We are answer here.

Vikki Danielson: 28:12

Hi yeah, how about that? Yeah, yeah.

Dustin Howes: 28:17

You know, in that CBD space you've got to be different, somehow to make your brand stand out, because there are just so many brands out there.

Vikki Danielson: 28:26

Well, you know everywhere.

Dustin Howes: 28:27

Yes, absolutely. So that might be one of your avenues, and especially since, like you, can't advertise on Google for certain keywords in that space, a lot of rules in that space.

Dustin Howes: 28:39

This is another avenue for you to get sales. Might be a really good fit for some CBD folks out there. Yeah, smart, okay, awesome. Now that kind of ties into like what's the future holding for us in affiliate. Like the first thing that comes to mind is I know brands like Fanatics Incredible and always ahead of the cusp, wade and Joe out there, always looking for what's next in the affiliate world and I feel like they probably use you guys in some kind of capacity or have in the past. And I feel like there's an evolution of hey, let's not just throw out Fanatics gear, sports in general. We know, based on that IP, what sports team they like. Let's give them a giants commercial. Like I have in my background, like I feel like that could be like that next level. Is that something you guys are thinking about right now?

Vikki Danielson: 29:38

Yeah, the data for us is like everything, to be honest, that we work with brands and you know, at a brand level, they know their customers, they know the personas that they wanna target. And we take all of that knowledge share and we say you know what, we're gonna definitely look into that, but we're gonna keep the targeting broad initially and then we're gonna let the data guide us and tell us what works. So what we have is human yield managers that are watching the campaigns daily and they remove an inventory. That's not driving conversions and then they're doubling down and finding more that it. So it's like we've got AI that's built into the platform, but we've got humans that are watching this stuff.

Vikki Danielson: 30:15

And you know, if we see that we spent a certain amount on a streaming platform that didn't drive that many conversions, we're gonna shift that spend and put it into a platform that we see our driving conversions. So we're really super hyper conversion focus and that data and those target and those segments. You know we definitely apply them, but we start broad and we let the data teach us where to go because we are following those conversions. We're not here for the brand in an awareness, which is an added perk. We're here for conversions because that's when we get paid on the CPO model anyway.

Dustin Howes: 30:49

For sure. That makes a lot of sense. Looks like we got some comments in here. Oh, we got a Nick on Nick crime here. Nick Kress music for us being able to target content that video editors and digital creators watch could be wonderful. Absolutely, you must give Vicki a call here, nick. I still find it unbelievable. You folks make TV work. That's all I still. I still can't believe it Like. This is new science and technology.

Vikki Danielson: 31:19

It's new science, for sure. And listen, we didn't make it work overnight. It's taken a lot of learning and you know, we've definitely seen in an instances where we've spent more on media than we've seen in conversions and you know we have to get the violins out and have a little break.

Dustin Howes: 31:35

Just the tiniest one, break up, just the tiniest one.

Vikki Danielson: 31:39

This was a whoop, whoop, whoop, but we have now I'm really confident to say, like we've figured out that secret source and we know what guardrails to put up in having conversations with brands, so we don't waste their time. It's having them go through onboarding and then say, well, sorry, you know this didn't work out, so we've got a lot better at doing the math and getting scientific with the data to make sure that this is gonna be a worthwhile long-term strategic partnership.

Dustin Howes: 32:05

Beautiful, all right. And then Nick Marquesi comes in says hi, vicky, does TV scientific ability to geotarget? Great question. We see you Geotargeting?

Vikki Danielson: 32:16

How did I not bring that up? Thank you, nick. Yes, we do, right down to the zip code level. So the more filters that you put on, the higher the CPMs get. So we'll have to back that and build that into the CPO model. But, yes, we can geotarget. For sure, those data segments that we have access to, you know, through the oracles and live ramps of the world, really help with that as well. So, yes, day parting, there's lots of targeting. If we wanna find people that eat a pickle on a Monday between one and three, I reckon we can do it. Wow, that's a bold statement actually. I'm gonna take that back.

Dustin Howes: 32:51

Yeah, I'd see.

Vikki Danielson: 32:52

I'm putting down, yeah.

Dustin Howes: 32:53

Kind of called action on people's refrigerators. You have going on here, but I don't like the sound of it.

Vikki Danielson: 33:00

Well, there's smart refrigerators now Maybe we can kind of match up. Damn it, too right, Too much.

Dustin Howes: 33:05

That is next level shit. You're unbelievable.

Vikki Danielson: 33:11

Too much.

Dustin Howes: 33:13

All right. So beyond that Affiliate Future, what does it hold? You guys are on the cutting edge of doing something really incredible here. Do you have any other insights on what the Future of Affiliate looks like?

Vikki Danielson: 33:25

But the future. If I think it's a really exciting time for all of us in the affiliate realm, I think that we're going to see more budget come in our way. I think that brands are really going to be focused I think just with the economy being the way it is on following and investing in channels that work and with performance marketing we can show that it works and we've seen that through all of the different categories that have come through and started an affiliate and then become huge categories in their own right athlete networks, card linked offers there's so many of them now. So I do feel that partnerships like TV Scientific and the more innovative opportunities that come through are just going to open up more budget from and help those internal conversations to get more budget thrown. We've seen it with relationships where budget is being pulled from other teams and put into TV Scientific because we can measure, you know we can, we can show that this is working through incremental reporting and methodologies. So I'm excited for us all. I think it's really exciting.

Dustin Howes: 34:31

That's a great segment. I love, I love what you guys are doing there Incredible stuff. And it looks like Nick is into the pickle idea, so he's going to be eating pickles for a while and seeing how well, I was thinking, I was thinking.

Dustin Howes: 34:50

See how long it takes for him to get a gloss and commercial on his TV. Great, great job, nick. Thank you for supporting this. All right, so moving on, it's time for you to defend your post here, that favorite segment of the day, and this is looks like it's from eight years ago itself. So this says the purpose of life is living life of purpose, finding your purpose in life Really hippie of you right here, but defend yourself like have you? Have you found your purpose in life yet, vicki?

Vikki Danielson: 35:32

My purpose in life is such a good one. So I did something very European, but I did it much later in life, so I think I was 32. I was working as an account director at one of the large networks and I quit my job and I sold everything that I owned and I took a year out with my husband and we traveled. We just put backpacks on and we didn't have one of these kind of preplanned routes. We were just like let's check out Africa, let's check out New Zealand. We have a little the wonderless.

Vikki Danielson: 36:06

Wonder is, yeah, and I met a lot of cool people, stayed on a lot of couch, surfing in homes and that's, you know, a ton of really awesome people. And I think that is the purpose of life. I think it's the people, it's the journey, and we actually open up our home now. We live in this beautiful spot in Amelia Island and we take people come, stay with us, you know, to give back to those traveling communities where we crashed on people's couches and you get to meet cool people. We have nice visitors at the table to meet and chat with my girls and it's just fun.

Dustin Howes: 36:38

Yeah, that's awesome, I love it. I love it. You you're embracing, and that's you know this actually is is what makes you such a great network marketer. Like you're one of those folks that you meet for the first time and it's like you've been friends forever, and I love that about your personality and how you embrace everybody that comes to you.

Vikki Danielson: 37:04

And that's what this industry is made of, you Right? That's why I said earlier it's where all the cool people are, because most affiliate marketers are partnership relationship people and you know it's full of good humans.

Dustin Howes: 37:15

Absolutely, and those are the ones that I enjoy the most. So, all right, as we wrap up here, let's talk about one last TV scientific. What kind of brands are you guys looking to work with?

Vikki Danielson: 37:28

All the brands, all the brands, all the brands, all the brands. Like I say, travel and that's the table event can be higher in the funnel is a tough one for us, but we want to work with brands of all shapes and sizes. We want to work with apps, we want to have the conversation to help you figure out TV. So I would say reach out, let me do some of the number crunching for you. Welcome some projections for you, let you know what we think we can deliver and I think also, keeping your back pocket, that we can also be live within a week. So if this is something that you're interested in, where it's not too late for this year, let us help you nail Q4, so to speak, and get some of those conversations and projections going.

Dustin Howes: 38:09

That's fantastic. It looks like you've got a fan over here. Kelly Brown, former guest on affiliate, nerd out Kelly ground. Vicky is the best, absolutely. Oh, we got another question from Nick. Yes, mueson, is there any work being done to combat attribution conflicts? If you claim conversions on all devices on an IP address, double payments or misattributions could be an issue. It's one of those things that held us back a bit.

Vikki Danielson: 38:40

Yes is the big answer. So we do have a data science team on hand that can help work with you and your analytics team to figure out what is that sweet spot and to figure out what is actually happening, because we don't know what we don't know until we test. So most brands can give us a cap to stay within. You know, I don't want to spend any more than X on CPA commissions. Remember, this is a no integration, no managed service, no launch fee opportunity. So once we've got that cap and we start passing you back all of those order IDs, that's when we'll have you, your team, weigh in and let us know what it is you're seeing.

Vikki Danielson: 39:14

If you're seeing a ton of traffic to the website and a ton of new searches, you might say you, we love this. You know, let's remove the cap and go for scale and volume. But on the flip side, what if you're seeing that there is too much double dipping and you know that same user that sat on the couch and watched the ads then picked up their cell phone and went to Google and your paid team serve them an ad that they clicked on. You're going to run the risk of double dipping so that we sit really close at the beginning, especially in, you know, cohort seven days, 14 days to figure out what is happening. And then we can play around with both that attribution window and the CPA to make sure that it's going to make sense for brands and we can provide the incrementality reporting and we can also help put guardrails in place to also get ahead of that. So that's not only shrinking the attribution window but also really working with brands to understand I lost my chain of fault but working with them to understand what's happening and then, you know, pivot in where we need to to make sure that it's making sense.

Vikki Danielson: 40:19

And the point was we can suppress existing customers and we can focus on prospecting net new to file, we can attach it that we can look at and model out and run the math to make sure again that we're adding value and that we're not just coming in similar with targeting. We can upload your first party data. So you know again, we're not targeting existing customers and we are focused on bringing you new ones. So our goal is to be that long term strategic partner for you. So you want, we want to work with you to figure that out, but we just don't know what. We don't know until we got some data.

Dustin Howes: 40:49

Fantastic answer, Vicky. Great question, Nick. So the real answer here is go talk to Vicky for 15, 30 minutes and figure out if it's going to be a fit for you or an embado. So great, great answer. How do we connect with you here, Vicky?

Vikki Danielson: 41:07

So my email awkward Vicky spelling, but it's vikkie at TV scientific dot com.

Dustin Howes: 41:15

Oh, you just get a first name, that's it First name over here.

Vikki Danielson: 41:20

I know it's very neat.

Dustin Howes: 41:23

Nick wants to give you one more shout out of thanks. Great answer. Appreciate you, committed, full transparency and the exchange of data. Hey, nick, I appreciate you jumping in and chattering today. Thanks for the questions, buddy, all right, so Vicky at TV scientific dot com, is that right? Awesome. And before we wrap things up, lesson of the day, cpo, and love this concept of a new C P X, whatever it may be. Cpo, what was, what was the stand for?

Vikki Danielson: 41:59

outcome, yeah, outcome. Let us measure whatever is important to you. Is it a sale, is it a leave, is it a download, and then store.

Dustin Howes: 42:07

I'm going to start using it. Cpo is mine, and then another part of that lesson is opening up into other venues is always a good idea. Never a problem having a conversation with a company that you think might make a, might be a difference maker in your program. So TV scientific is cutting edge and I like what they're doing. Go give them a try. Thursday's episode of affiliate nerd I will have Jennifer Myers Ward. She'll be stopping by and nerding out with me. If you want my ultimate affiliate checklist, go to this QR code and click it now and check that out, and Vicki really appreciate your time. Thanks for being here on affiliate nerd out.

Vikki Danielson: 42:58

Thanks for having me. Thanks.

Dustin Howes: 43:00

All right, folks, keep on recruiting. We'll see you out there. Take care.