Dustin Howes: 0:28

Hey folks, welcome to Affiliate Nerd Out. I am your Nerd-erator, dustin Howes, spreading that good word about affiliate marketing. You're going to find me on LinkedIn Live every Thursday 12-15, so put it on the calendar and be here. I'm slowing down a little bit, if you didn't notice, so check out these latest episodes. So check out these latest episodes. My nerd guests today are Camille and Nicole from Klaviyo and NordVPN. Welcome to the.

Nicole Neves: 0:59

Nerdatorium Hi.

Dustin Howes: 1:01

Dustin.

Dustin Howes: 1:03

Happy to be here, awesome, awesome. This is a little bit of a different format. Usually I have a format of interviewing just one person, but today I thought it would be super fun to check out what a good working affiliate partnership looks like, and you guys work together, so I thought it would be a great time for you guys to discuss what we go through as affiliate managers on both sides of the equation. So appreciate you being here. If you would like to be in Camille and Nicole's seat, come be a guest, go to dustinhowes. com, slash nerd and drop an application for what you want to nerd out about. But without further ado, let's start off with you, nicole. Who are you?

Nicole Neves: 1:49

Well, I'm Nicole. I'm with Clovio, which is sort of a media brand which owns best reviews. We'll be focusing on today's articles and I'm an easygoing person. I like talking with people, just as we are doing, and looking forward to discussing our good partnership with Nord.

Dustin Howes: 2:15

Beautiful. Love the hair, love what's going on there? You're on brand it actually matches Matching the. Colville logo Incredible. You should get a raise for that automatically. All right, camille, how about you Tell me about who you are?

Kamile Kaselyte: 2:33

Hi Dustin, Hi Nicole, Happy to be here. So I'm Affiliate Account Director at Nord Security, the company behind products such as NordVPN, NordPass, and we recently also launched a new product which is called Saley, and it's a new ESM service.

Dustin Howes: 2:53

Excellent, excellent. I'm familiar with the VPN and security space. I'm excited to talk to you guys both today and let's start off with you, nicole. So let's talk about who best reviews what you guys do and who you're servicing out there.

Nicole Neves: 3:14

So best reviews focuses on extensive review content um third party content, so it's more trusted, and so we focus on high quality content that informs our visitors. Informed visitor is a purchasing client, so that's our focus. We focus on, obviously, high quality brands operating in various vertical securities, such as Nord marketing communications, and we target both consumers and businesses, usually small to medium sized businesses. But yeah, essentially we focus on high quality content that aims to educate our audience.

Dustin Howes: 3:53

Beautiful and security seems to be one of your big focuses at your company, and a lot of SaaS products as well. So I've been watching you guys from afar for quite a few years and been really impressed with your guys' services and the way we've worked together in the past with some of my brands. Just love what you guys are doing over there and you make it easy on affiliate managers in all reality. So, all right, and tell us about you, camille. What does Nord Security do and who are you servicing out there?

Kamile Kaselyte: 4:27

Yeah, so. So basically, nord security has an aim to develop products within you know, cybersecurity space and make you know customers lives easy whenever they, you know, browse the internet or, you know, get mobile data while traveling or protect their credentials. So, essentially, we are coming up with you know tools for customers that they can, you know, rely on in terms of you know their needs. So we have NordVPN, nordpass and Saley. These are our products. We also have a NordLocker, which is a secure cloud storage service, and NordLocker, which is a secure cloud storage service.

Dustin Howes: 5:22

And we're, you know, empowering our clients to use all of our products to essentially, you know, be safe and make their lives easy. Well, safety and security on the Internet is at the utmost paramount of importance. It seems like there's a new breach of security somewhere in the world every month and not every company is taking the right precautions. So I'm glad you guys are out there doing this. So when you have and your role is in the partnership development role and I'm very interested on what do you do when you're looking at partners For one before I let you get started a big brand like Nord a lot of applications, I would assume. I had a ton of applications when I was working at IPVanish and if I had 5% of the applications that were incoming that were good enough to accept into the program, that was a win for the day, essentially. But how do you go about finding the partners and choosing who you're going to work with out there?

Kamile Kaselyte: 6:29

Yeah, yeah, good question. I mean talking about, firstly, about NordVPN. So it's almost like we're, you know, 10 years in the market and we probably started affiliate marketing back then, almost like probably seven years ago. So probably first three years were for the product making to establish ourselves in the market and then we sort of like really early, jumped into affiliate marketing. So whenever we talk about, you know, more or less security, uh, what, what I would say, um, to have in mind is that you know, our affiliate program is already very mature.

Kamile Kaselyte: 7:04

So maybe the, the approaches that we take may be a really different than, for example, for a brand that has just started out.

Kamile Kaselyte: 7:12

But essentially we're like looking at the pool of partners and we are segmenting them into different like segments of partners.

Kamile Kaselyte: 7:19

So there may be like small partners, right, who will generate us like a couple of sales, you know, each month, but there may be our key accounts that we will, you know, rely on in terms of, you know, generating like really large volumes of sales, you know, every month, and that's where, you know, we have like key account managers who are like and making sure that these accounts are really well maintained.

Kamile Kaselyte: 7:45

So we have basically really different criteria for different segments of partners, but generally we are really interested in working with as many as possible sites or small YouTubers, influencers, whoever come to apply to our program, because our main goal is to spread out the message you know about, about our product. So if you meet uh, um requirements, um, basic requirements, such as you know traffic thresholds and you know your um, you don't really go against our policy guidelines. So then you're really really welcome and then really depends on your performance then how our partnership would look like. But generally, you know, as an encouragement, if you're watching this and if you're thinking like should I work with Nord, we are really welcoming basically everyone who feels that they're spreading relevant content about cybersecurity.

Dustin Howes: 8:45

Excellent. You brought something up in there and that is essentially segmenting your groups of affiliates into, like, big players, big publishers and maybe the smaller long tail affiliates. When you're going through applications and when you're reaching out to these partners, what do you have as a mindset of like bucketing those affiliates that are joining your program?

Kamile Kaselyte: 9:12

Yeah, so I think, essentially, you know, we try to give absolutely all affiliates like equal opportunities to scale and to be able to, you know, present Nord in the best light possible. So we do provide them with a really strong, you know content support. So we basically show them, you know, the possible angles they can talk about our products. We give them, you know, optimized landing page and they always, like, whenever you join the program, you already have like a dedicated account manager you can always reach out to if you have any questions in terms of optimization. But when we're talking about the biggest, the key accounts that we work with and one of them is Clovia, of course, and we're really happy about the partnership. So what we're doing then with them, we're, you know, having a really close partnership where we, you know, not just monitoring stats but basically helping them in the cases of, you know, strong CRO insights, seo insights.

Kamile Kaselyte: 10:15

So we do a lot of you know support for our partner to ensure that they keep up to date with all the cybersec news, because you know we are on it all day long. So we can really share what's happening in the industry right away. So our partners, so we can really share what's happening in the industry right away. So our partners, we do feel that they, you know, overseeing many verticals is really difficult for a big partner. So that's why, where Nord comes in and helps to say like hey, there is this new, you know trend happening over there. Would you be interested in you know covering this? Or you know so we're, we're really on top of of of the trends.

Dustin Howes: 10:53

Excellent, all right. And Nicole, how about on your side of things? How do you pick your advertisers that you're going to go out there and work with?

Nicole Neves: 11:02

So we usually only reach out to brands that we firstly believe in and see the potential, and not only brand, but featuring them on best reviews and what our audience can do for them. Um, sometimes brands reach out um, and there's always some sort of um you know, assessment process of this brand will do well on best reviews, etc. But generally all brands have good potential for growth and best reviews. So we put ourselves out there, present our product, our service, what we want to do for them, and then we go from there, as Camille said, developing close relationships and giving all brands the same opportunity to grow on best reviews, with the same sort of content optimizations, best converting land. These close relationships with the brands and account managers allows us to then develop the content, the partnership and everything so on.

Dustin Howes: 12:06

Yeah, and I've been very impressed by the onboarding of working with you. You guys have, you know, some kind of sponsorship fee most of the time with the brands you're working with and it's very affordable and very fair and I really appreciate that as an affiliate manager that has to go through a lot of levels of thumbs up throughout the I call it red tape and it's really annoying. And when you gave us a no brainer easy to come back to solution and you're getting a ton of content and exchange, it's an easy game. So I really appreciate the way you guys onboard your advertisers over there.

Nicole Neves: 12:59

Okay, yeah, definitely. It's great to hear that we lose everything. So, as all of the onboarding fees to make sure that our content team can can really take their time, test everything, create the highest quality content from their own experience, not just what the brand passes through us first. And it's great when brands are okay with this. They see the value in our service, in our content team, and it's easy to step over the hurdles that higher-ups may oh for sure, All right, so we get a marriage between these two brands.

Dustin Howes: 13:31

The advertiser and the partner say yes, we want to work together. What is a good starting point for a relationship? I'll let you go first here, nicole. How do you approach starting the relationship together?

Nicole Neves: 13:51

So, as I mentioned before, we usually reach out to brands, show them what we want to do for them, show them the value in our audience, in our content, etc. And then it's a matter of figuring out the finer details. As I mentioned, the best converting ending page, optimizing the content and our partnership. So it's as best as it can be. But from the get go and things can go off to a smooth start, a close relationship, always even in the beginning really making that connection and developing things along as we go.

Dustin Howes: 15:11

Awesome, awesome. And on your end, what do you think, Camille? How do you like starting relationships?

Kamile Kaselyte: 15:19

Totally. I actually love your comparison about marriage and affiliate partnership. It's also a bit like that.

Kamile Kaselyte: 15:27

Whether it's marriage or relationship, I think the first step is basically outlining expectations on both sides.

Kamile Kaselyte: 15:34

So I think a lot of times, you know, sometimes jumping really quickly into you know partnership without you know aligning what their first steps would be, and then you know, go officially, start, kick off the partnership with probably like a small scale test and by saying small scale I wouldn't mean that the results should be small.

Kamile Kaselyte: 16:15

I'm trying to say that it should be optimal on both sides that you're basically not investing the 100% capacity from your side, but then you're starting with something really viable that makes sense for both sides. And I think what's really crucial at this stage of partnership is basically that both sides don't like kind of over push each other. So it's like starting out from a comfortable angle that makes both parties happy, because I think that's really important to show that both of the parties respect each other and they hope for the best. But at the same time it's like the best that we can do at this moment and the effort comes from both sides. So we basically assume that the result will be dependent equally on both sides, not just on the brand or not just on the publisher side.

Dustin Howes: 17:00

That's very well said and it brings up a really interesting point and a tough point to approach sometimes, and that is setting expectations within the relationship, and this goes both ways, like what we can expect as a give and take, and it's in the negotiation process. But what are some of the ways that you approach the partners that you're working with on when to expect things from you from the brand's perspective? Let's start with you, camille.

Kamile Kaselyte: 17:49

Let's start with you, camille. Yeah, I think, basically, when we're starting, like you partner that has X amount of traffic, then I would be pulling out my stats for, like, similar partners that they have similar like domain ranking, similar like organic traffic size, and then I would be thinking, okay, so is this something that we can replicate again? And probably my expectations then for uh, for the publisher side, would be to sort of, like, you know, uh, replicate that, that performance that we uh have already achieved. So I think that that would be kind of the the basis, like I think, at least on on our side. But of course, we do really um, listen to the partner and we really listen to each feedback that he or she provides.

Kamile Kaselyte: 18:37

So in some cases, like we do understand that you know, we would need to align our expectations. Sometimes they could be smaller, sometimes they can even be bigger, depending on what the partner is proposing. So, but I think you know all the, all the negotiations, all the expectations, I think it for for us, eventually it goes, uh, goes to a simple question uh, you know, return on investment. So I think we're always, whenever, when we're trying to, you know, build a new partnership, we would always look, um, that it would make sense. Uh, first of all on our side, in terms of return on investment, and then, if this calculation also makes sense for our partner, then, only then we go ahead with our best intentions on both sides.

Dustin Howes: 19:27

That's well said and you know you don't have a ton of demands on your side but on Nicole's side, on the brand side, for best reviews. I know as an affiliate manager for brands and asking the numbers from you of what we can expect can be a tough question to answer. So how do you approach that Nicole?

Nicole Neves: 19:51

Well, you know, I think those numbers, time, expertise and in-depth analysis of content or brands or performance. So we always try to have some numbers to provide in that category with similar partners etc. So their expectations of us can also be very clear and things are all on the table and no hidden metrics, nothing like that. So we try to be as clear as possible on what brands can expect from us, what we can provide, maintaining that clear communication, making sure that our metrics are growing and that we always present partners with the most up-to-date and from there we'll also expect that same clear communication, what they expect from us, what they can give us, and something like along those lines of keeping everything on the ensure we're both aware of each other can provide.

Dustin Howes: 20:58

Okay, excellent, and as far as you know, we've come together and decided we're going to have this relationship. What is the negotiation process looks like when you're before we start that first campaign for for you guys over on the brand side? We'll start with you, nicole, like, what does a win-win look like to you when you're in this negotiation phase?

Nicole Neves: 21:23

I think it ended up tying with the expectations part um, it's when we're both aware of what to expect, sure, um, everything is, is settled, content team gets on the content and we have this ongoing content creation. The partner will also you know developments that they want to be included in the content and from then it's just a matter of us putting out the content and start seeing the results.

Dustin Howes: 21:56

Beautiful and Camille, what about you? What's a win-win for you when you're negotiating?

Kamile Kaselyte: 22:02

Yeah, the first probably thought that comes to my mind when I hear the word negotiation is probably payout. It always comes to my mind you know quickly. But I think, basically, when we're negotiating, we always have to mind you know quickly. But I think basically when we're negotiating, we always have to look, you know, for, as Nicole said, for the win-win situation. But I think the idea here, at least from the brand perspective, is that, you know, we get the maximum exposure, even for a test that we can with a publisher, because the idea here is that in order to have a successful test, we would also need to be present in, let's say, you know, top positions or be visible, otherwise the test wouldn't work the same. So I think it's really critical for us to even start out with a strong, already presence together on the publisher side, because I think that's really important and I think when negotiating it's really important to start off that you know we want to be successful and we want to see, like, what is there out there that we can, you know, achieve together. But I think, in terms of, you know, the payout probably is one of the key parts of negotiation. So I think for Nord, again, it's the same magic word, a return on investment. So we try to estimate, you know, whether we would be able to stay within a certain return on investment level that we're looking at. And, of course, we always benchmark what similar publishers, which volumes they can generate with similar type of promotions, and then what payout they are receiving. So then we try to be fair again with all the partners and we try to be, you know, fair again with all the partners and um um offer the, the similar payouts, uh within within the relative threshold in which the partner is operating in.

Kamile Kaselyte: 24:02

So, yeah, I think that that would be it, but, you know, negotiations um it, it really depends. It's an art and we're learning it, uh, every day. So I think it's a really um interesting topic and I think, you know, having having had to deal with, um, some really really big publishers in the us, it's really subject, even a win to get their answer. Like you know, we'll look, we're gonna look at it. So it's, it's a lot, even, even, even if, uh, we're talking about such a big brand as Nord Security, you know, in some cases we're also, you know, like still being happy about you know, publisher, you know, replying to us, because in certain cases it's really hard to, for example, convince a really big publisher to to to start cyber security vertical. So because, um, they may be into, you know, politics, they may be into music, but uh, basically convincing them to start, uh, cyber security vertical needs a lot of convincing, a lot of numbers and lots of strong proposals.

Dustin Howes: 25:07

So for sure. Uh, maybe my favorite thing about affiliate marketing is that dopamine rush you get when you get a publisher response to one of your outgoing emails or or messages out onto the internet. I I love that feeling and you bring out some really great points on the negotiation and um with historical data that nord has. With being having an affiliate program seven years, that can be really dynamic for you to make educated decisions. Essentially been accustomed to looking and eyeballing what's going to be a good deal, but a partner like Best Reviews has SEO content and has much more potential in the long run rather than the short term. So how do you see that? Organic partners compared to like an influencer that might have instant results? Where do you like to allocate your budget? Do you like to go long term or do you like to go short term a little bit more?

Kamile Kaselyte: 26:24

Yeah, I think it's always, always the long term game, combined with some, you know, pushes along the way in case you need to boost, like your billings. But I think essentially we're, you know, all the time playing the long term game and I think it's we really really value our, you know, organic partners that rank really well in terms of the keywords that we're interested in. So I think that's probably really was and is crucial from the start of our affiliate program because you know, you know traffic is different, so it's different in PPC, it's different in organic. But I think you know what we're essentially looking at is building really successful long term partnerships that you know, as you mentioned, have the benefits on a long term basis, where you can basically constantly reap the fruits, instead of, you know, going one time and having like a successful campaign that will be one off thing with with high investment, as opposed to something that is maybe like smaller scale but long termterm, and then eventually we are winning in this long game.

Dustin Howes: 27:37

Okay, awesome, well said. And, Nicole, on that side of things, I know you guys are very strong on the SEO game and for long-term commitment to your content, but you guys also have some paid campaigns. When you like create the content to like really boost it up and help those rankings eventually and talk to us about, like, how you decide, like you know where is this budget going to go and if this piece of content is really worthy of a lot of budget going in going in.

Nicole Neves: 28:14

So we it's great to hear that Norwich in the long term. As you know, our content is also invested in the long term and it stays on master views forever, so we can constantly update it, promote the brand through other content. We also have our teams that take care of all of that budget allocation for PPC, etc. Then we have our teams that take care of all of that budget allocation for PPC, etc. Then we have our further exposure opportunities. So for the shorter term, let's say we have, and then we also have our blog articles on best reviews that also invest in the long term. So it's a matter of looking at brands, seeing how we're doing, what can be done, what opportunities would best fit the partners, seeing if our suggestions fit with the partners' expectations, goals, needs and assessing these together and developing from there.

Dustin Howes: 29:11

Excellent, all right. So let's say we have this relationship and that first campaign is a success for both of you. You guys both look good on the affiliate manager side. What's what's next? Well, what's that next step for continuing and nurturing this relationship into that next level? You go ahead and go first, nicole.

Nicole Neves: 29:36

NICOLE SINCLAIR. First and foremost, keeping the content updated, whether it's features, offers, landing pages, for example, if there has been pages with Converts Pass now. Keeping the partnership very tight, even in the eyes of our audience For example, branded landing pages, vanity codes, real performance and keeping that relationship tight to ensure that things keep moving smoothly. And looking at further content that can be created. So I mentioned this heavily on brand awareness and redirecting audience from social media back to our content to keep informing and just keeping the content going. The partnership momentum.

Dustin Howes: 30:26

Oh, that's great. And keeping that content up to date can be really tough, especially in that VPN space where it's so competitive and there's a new coupon coming out for like every single holiday out there Like St Patrick's Day has a 70% off deal. Like it is really tough to keep up. On your guys' side, camille, what do you think on your side? That first campaign success? How do you guys like to nurture the next steps?

Kamile Kaselyte: 30:56

Yeah, I totally agree with what Nicole has just shared with you guys. So I think you know what's probably also important to add as well like on our side, we look at the first campaign, we analyze the results, we check the return on investment, we check, you know, where we can improve. So both the partner and both the brand. So, as Nicola mentioned, maybe you can run different, like A-B testing with different landing pages. Maybe you can, you know, add more localizations, maybe you can add, you know, tweak some parts of the content. You know you track which parts of the content are performing best and you try to also replicate the campaign success with even larger volumes as the next step. So basically you're looking then, if your first campaign was successful, then you're looking into, like probably a long term roadmap, what you can basically achieve in the long-term with the partners. So probably it's like a worthwhile aligning, like you know, next quarter strategy, next year strategy and how you can basically strengthen what was already achieved.

Kamile Kaselyte: 32:06

Because basically, with organic partners, when we have, you know, partnerships really try to make sure that they are, you know, keeping up with all the trends. So that, have you know, partnerships really try to, uh, to make sure that they are, you know, keeping up with all the all the trends so that, you know, search engines still continue to rank them. Well, because it's not enough, you know, to um um, produce a content you know, once in a while. Because you know, uh, it's really important to stay on the top of SERPs and Google is known for their really heavy updates which really make drastic changes on SERPs. For example, we recently looked at SERPs and after the latest Google update, so many partners were flipped and they changed their key positions. But I think, why? I think it's really important to basically continuously monitor, you know, the performance, but also help the partner to continuously strive for relevant content and making sure that they keep on repeating the best practices every month and making sure that you're on the top of the mind for consumers in that whole marketing funnel.

Dustin Howes: 33:24

Excellent, excellent. And regarding the communication of nurturing this partnership that you guys have, how do you guys like to stay in contact? And before you answer that, camille, I like to say a best practice, for me at least, is, as a brand, I take my top 10 partners and I like to have a cadence 30-minute phone call with them once a month just to build that relationship and continue to get to know them as a month, just to you know, build that relationship and continue to get to know them as a person, essentially, and at least my representative. But how do you go about approaching this with some of your biggest partners?

Kamile Kaselyte: 34:04

Totally so. I think you know monthly calls are essential because you always have to, you know, keep in touch and, you know, discuss the monthly performance. So I think that's essential. But I think, in terms of key accounts, probably we do like to keep even our closer partnership and we try to meet our key partners in conferences that they're attending. So I know that I'll see you, dustin, in Miami, so that's where Nord is heading as well and we'll we'll be meeting some of our, you know, key partners as well, as we will look for new ones.

Kamile Kaselyte: 34:39

But I think the idea is also to to keep that, you know, human connection or where, where it's possible, whenever it's possible.

Kamile Kaselyte: 34:47

So you know, and meeting partners and you know, having a drink with them is also sometimes really really helpful because basically, then you can chit, chat about the whole you know vertical, about the cyber security space, and I think once you get that human touch and human connection, it's easier to, you know, maintain the partnership. And probably, you know, when you have this close partnership, it's really really helpful to meet in person and, for example, you know, to showcase your product, you know, in real time, for example, pull out the phone and show. You know, you know how NordPass works and how you can see. You know in real time if you have been breached, you know if your credentials have been used, etc. Or you know tell a partner like hey, download Saley app. Like, look, I'm using Saley. Now I'm in the US and I'm using really cheap data plan because I need mobile data in the US and it's much cheaper than you know buying it from a local, you know from your mobile partner. So I think that's something that is really really helpful in terms of building partnerships.

Dustin Howes: 35:59

Yeah, it's nice to work for a company that gives you the budget to go do these kinds of conferences and travel every once in a while. I love it when they invest in my education and my partnership development. It's super key. What about on your side, Nicole? What do you do to nurture these partnerships?

Nicole Neves: 36:24

It's more or less what you both have mentioned already Regular calls on top of everything keeping up with performance, really getting to know the person on the other hand, on the other end, so we can develop a closer relationship both as affiliate managers, as people, and really invest in the brand because we believe in the relationship. That's been attending conferences as well. Some brands, some publishers, may prefer virtual ones. We prefer in person. We really appreciate speaking face to face. Some are like we're sitting down, as Camille said, showing products, showing metrics, et cetera, and really speaking, even outside of just being able to know each other brands and developing that tight relationship.

Dustin Howes: 37:23

Yes, yes, and, oddly enough, like this relationship, this podcast today that we put together, was because Helen and I met at Affiliate Summit back in January and we created this idea. That was really unique to what I was doing and I loved it. So that's where it stemmed from, and getting to those conferences is essential, in my opinion, for your growth as an affiliate manager altogether All right. So thank you so much for your insight on the nurturing of the partnership and that step by step process that you go through. I love what you guys are doing and how you guys are doing it. I want to talk about tools that you guys may be using out there that you might want to introduce to the other folks that may be listening. Are there any tools that you are finding very helpful? What about you, nicole?

Nicole Neves: 38:17

well, I'd say that a good affiliate platform I'm going to fill program is always um a good basis, or? An affiliate platform, um with an agency, etc. In some cases, what's your favorite?

Dustin Howes: 38:32

what's?

Nicole Neves: 38:37

Well, we have all of them, and each comes with their different value. Some for example, offer post back integration.

Nicole Neves: 38:46

some have better reporting, so I couldn't say a favorite, because they all have their strong points and sometimes you want to make the perfect one, but in cases where affiliates or affiliate partners don't have field programs, we also use Link Trust where basically we can provide them a script that they can introduce on their confirmation page checkout page. That will then assign the conversion for us and essentially, let's say it's that style of program. If partners don't have it, we can try to implement it on our side and generally keeping things organized on our end as well through a good CRM.

Dustin Howes: 39:31

Okay, excellent. You mentioned the portion there of oh man, I lost my thought. Some good tips there, and I like how you're staying agnostic to your affiliate networks. That's classy. I mean not the way I would have gone. I throw out everything in my opinions, but I like the way you go about things here. Camille, how about you? What tools are you using out there?

Kamile Kaselyte: 40:02

So I think, basically, what was probably essential to outline that you know we use a number of tools and, depending on you know, depending on the process where we need you know the tool to be able to do something more efficiently.

Kamile Kaselyte: 40:16

But I think what's really helpful for us is basically for affiliate managers is to constantly use uh tools like href, similar rep, etc.

Kamile Kaselyte: 40:26

Probably you, you, you all know these and it's not not something new that I'm telling you, but but I think it's really essential to to to learn how to master them on on a really like pro level, because then it really helps to understand, like you know, your partner, uh, what are the strengths of the partner? Which are the pages that have the most potential for you to have you know product placement. So I think these, these are our you know what we call daily bread of uh affiliate marketing manager. And then, in terms of you know we use, you know, a number of tools at North Security, but I think you know, for example, with, with outreaches. You know you use many, like you know, tools like Mixmax and etc. That help you know outreach partners more efficiently. But yeah, it really depends on the stage of the process that we're talking about, but I think I would probably put a focus on traffic SEO monitoring tools, because these are giving so many helpful insights to optimize the partnership.

Dustin Howes: 41:36

Okay, awesome. I like the Ahrefs and SEMrush similar web points. I mean, those tools don't get old. But make sure you're taking a look at Affy's stash. Kristen Evans loves Affy's stash. She thinks it's a snake's pajamas. All right, Just give it a look there, Camille. I think it could help with your contact scraping if you're out there. What about your guys' day? Last question here what's your day look like on a normal basis? Go ahead, you go first, Camille.

Kamile Kaselyte: 42:11

I think, like each day at North, security can be so different. But I think that's why it's so exciting, because you know, you wake up, you open your laptop and you never know what you're going to see, because there's so many things that we're working on. And I think what's probably the most exciting part you know about working at Nord is that we work with different products. So, as mentioned, you know, within our affiliate team, we we have a number of products that we take care of. So there can be, you know, you wake up and you can have, you know, within our affiliate team, we, we have a number of products that we take care of. So, uh, there can be, you know, uh, you wake up and you can have, you know, three meetings and then you know 150 slack messages and more, more meetings, more meetings. But your day can be really cool and, for example, you may have, you know, um ai trainings organized by the company, which I will have actually tomorrow. So this is something that I'm really looking forward to. Um, that's really, you know, exciting how to uh leverage ai, because I'm sure we all know, you know the basics of, you know, chad, gbt, etc on on a very basic level, but that's very interesting how it can really help, um, you know if, if we use it more properly.

Kamile Kaselyte: 43:20

But I think overall, um, our day is is very, uh, very different each time. But I think the essentials of you know, um, you know emails, calls with partners and a daily monitoring of uh key stats of your partners, of you know your products is essential part. So you probably start your your day always pulling out the latest dashes of the performance of the products and then you know replying to your partners, checking you know what's new on the product side. It's really important to always have the sync. You know what's happening on the product side, what are the new releases, you know what's happening on the product side, what are the new releases. And we're always really, really dynamic and we really keep a really close contact with our colleagues. So we're always sharing ideas, discussing things collectively, and that's really, really dynamic because I think when we're sharing things then you know the best ideas come out. So it's always very, very lively.

Dustin Howes: 44:22

Yes, sharing things, then the best ideas come out. So it's always very, very lively. Yes, I love maybe my favorite portion of this job is the challenge, the new challenge every day, and that nothing is repetitive, because I like my brain going and trying to think critically to get things done, and I love that your mindset is in that same place. What about you, nicole? Any more stability over on the publisher side that you would say?

Nicole Neves: 44:51

uh, no, I'd say it doesn't really fun. What camilla said um, there's, you know, somewhat of a similar structure every day with emails, calls, etc. But every day is a new day new partnerships or existing ones, also new things that we may put out, or own internal meetings where we discuss performance, new ideas, what more can be done in terms of content partnerships um, every day really is a new day. Also, learning opportunities. Clovio also provides those. We have our team events gather around the studio and go do something fun together to really also tighten the bonds in our team. So, every day is a new day and, much like Camille said, you never know what you're getting into when you're doing either. A hundred messages through email, a hundred messages on Teams, what we use, and fun, as you mentioned, dustin, it's good that you know that. It keeps your brain going and keeps you striving to do better, more, et cetera.

Dustin Howes: 46:02

Yeah, you know I envy you guys in the sense that you get to go into an office and see people. That is a part of my life that I'm missing. I love the remote life, don't get me wrong. I've been doing it for like seven years now. But you know, sometimes I like to see people's faces and hang out and have a drink with them and you just don't get that as much. I like a little hybrid approach. But all right, as we wrap this up, how do we connect with you folks? Camille, go first.

Kamile Kaselyte: 46:32

So you can basically find me on LinkedIn by typing my first name and last name, and so we'd be happy to connect with you guys.

Dustin Howes: 46:40

Awesome.

Nicole Neves: 46:47

And Nicole Simon Camila can find me on LinkedIn. Nicole Nevs, you can also drop us at cloviocom and either myself or one of my colleagues will get back to you.

Dustin Howes: 46:57

Excellent, all right. Thanks for joining me. This has been great content. Really appreciate your guys' insight here and for those folks watching. Keep on recruiting and we'll see you out there, take care.