Dustin: 0:48

Hey folks, welcome to Affiliate Nerd Out. I am your Nerdorator Dustin Howes. Spreading that good word about affiliate marketing. You're going to find me here every Thursday at noon, with a recorded version of Affiliate Nerd Out. my guest today, Haafiz Dossa, over at Inflektion. He's the CEO and founder. Welcome to the Nerdatorium Haafiz.

Haafiz: 1:09

Thanks, Dustin. I appreciate being here and, as a fellow nerd. I'm excited for this nerd out.

Dustin: 1:14

I wish I would have had you on earlier schedules. Throughout the holiday season didn't comply with it, but I'm glad you're here now and we're doing this and if you'd like to be in Haafiz's seat, go to dustinhowes.com/nerd com slash nerd and drop a form fill and tell me what you want a nerd about. I want to hear more. But without further ado Haafiz, who are you?

Haafiz: 1:37

I am a nerd. I've been building tech for over 25 years Started back in the day. I building websites in the early, in the. com boom built a website with some song lyrics that exploded in popularity, had all this organic search traffic, and so I, so let me have to figure out how to monetize traffic, which got me into the affiliate game. in 2003. now there's been 20 years of. Affiliate and marketing industry experience I like playing at the intersection between tech and marketing and built businesses in the space. An ad network, a video sharing website that we scaled and sold. The thing that I was working on right before what I'm going to do right now is a marketing agency. we did growth marketing for high growth venture backed DTC companies focused on health and wellness any product and service that improve physical or emotional, spiritual and mental wellbeing. And yeah, most recently building now a tech play. So back to my roots. So I'm enjoying that, moving from a services. Business, which I don't think is in my DNA as much to a tech business. In the affiliate world called Inflektion that you touched on there. That's, yeah, that's who I am.

Dustin: 2:48

I've known you for a little over six months and had the pleasure of working for Inflektion I'm blown away at how you started this company to change the industry I'm glad to be a part of it. And it's been a pleasure working with you so far. So really excited to have you here and pick your brain. Tell us about Inflektion what you do and who you serve

Haafiz: 3:06

we help brands that have an offer that when we literally personalize the landing page for each affiliate or influencer, so that the conversion rates shoot through the roof by having that page speak to the exact interests of that influencer or affiliates audience. And this is actually built within our agency. It was spawned within the agency. We would, I think I like to, By ourselves, I'm like leaving no stone unturned for growth we tweak a little bit of copy for a particular affiliate on a lander, we would do that. We would clone the landing page. We would make another version of it. And have that page speak to that influencer or affiliates audience. And and that was great. It worked, but it was a pain to manage. And we, you'd have hundreds of pages cloned and that was a work to make happen. And what we learned is actually it's even more work to upkeep that afterwards. Anytime there's a sale, you have to update a bunch of pages with that, Like sale imagery. And then two weeks later, take it back down and switch all this kind of stuff. It was just such a lot of works. We started building this tooling internally to go make our lives easier. I'm a tech guy we started building this tooling internally and realized, there's something powerful here for others to use. we. Spun it out of the agency and built this into its own business. And focus, like I said, on anyone that's got a product that that's working with partners and personalize landing pages so that the conversion rates go up and, that just makes it stickier. Cause for stickier partnerships, because we found too often, there was so much churn and burn with affiliates that you didn't have recruited 20 of them. And then 19 of them would leave because it didn't work out so we're able to change that.

Dustin: 4:46

Incredible. every good software is designed out of necessity, right? you couldn't find the solution. So you go out and build it yourself. I've just been so impressed about what you guys have built here. And from an affiliate manager standpoint, building a co brand and landing pages for my affiliates that I know is going to improve the conversion rate. Everybody's told me that but the process of it has been. terrible throughout my career I have to request it from development has to go and make it however they do it, and that process takes a month, and by that month's time, that thing is, the affiliate's already over it they're on to the next thing. I was impressed how easy it is to build on Inflektion, a co branded landing page, in five minutes. Thank you

Haafiz: 5:32

Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned that it was that exact problem. There's actually two different groups of companies that we find. There's either the companies that are so small and nimble and, but they don't have those resources to actually like a dedicated developer to keep doing this kind of stuff all the time. So there's that class of companies. And then there's the ones that are too big where now the development team is in a different department and you've got to put it in like a work order to make it work. This page, goes into a queue, into a sprint and comes out four or five weeks later. And yeah, there's a momentum play like with the, but the partner, they're no longer interested because they've moved on to the next thing. So we actually haven't found a company that's got like that sweet spot. That's still has the resources, but it's structured in a nimble way. partnerships teams are. siloed lacking resources. other channels get, more resources outside their limited scope. And so that's the problem we're able to solve for people that are like, feel a little siloed and yeah, lacking the resources.

Dustin: 6:25

For sure. you had a product here that's building landing pages for the, your affiliates, but you also decided to stack on the tech stack to do the tracking and all the bells and whistles to help affiliate managers with all that what makes you different than standard affiliate networks

Haafiz: 6:41

we've got landing page personalizations and co branding. We do co branding great. We're platform agnostic, you don't have to be on Shopify or whatever. We built some really unique technology that we've got patent pending on that allows it to work on literally any technology out there. And it's because we've done it in a different way that is done client side on the user's browser. beyond the co branding is actually what we do is we allow for the entire messaging to get personalized. And that's where from our AB testing, that's where we see actually the bigger lift because in the affiliate world especially some of the super affiliates out there, they're really. Good with angles and hooks and like the kind of like detailed nuances of psychology, whereas most influencers out there are not, they. Don't have what it takes to make that kind of bridge between what they're interested in. And then like the, and the lander that they send traffic to is, it's completely different and doesn't match. And that's where then the conversion rates start breaking down. So not only did we do the co branding, but it's full customization of the funnel and the messaging on it. And that's how we stand out.

Dustin: 7:43

Let's get into the topic of the day. the scale formula. Now, this is something that I saw you present probably eight months ago, got you on my radar and involved with you guys I was so impressed by what you were doing here. And I've watched you through the last six months, hone this and make it even better. Can you tell us a little bit of what this approach is, the scale formula?

Haafiz: 8:06

our approach to growing any partnership program for a brand is the scale formula. S is solve for the gaps. C is customization of the marketing funnel. A is audience alignment and engagement. L is leveraging negotiations and the E is exclusivity. So those are obviously very big high level ones, but I'm going to dive into them. And I'll do that in kind of the order of the most followed to what I think is the biggest gap most people are missing. starting with the, a, most people are doing handling that, I'd call it in 2024 table stakes or almost 2025. That's pretty much table stakes. So a in scale is audience alignment and engagement. it's making sure the. Audience characteristics of your potential partner match up with your ideal customer's profile and that the partner has high engagement and and their audience has a high affinity for that partner. So like I said, I think that's table stakes your audience learned a lot through your podcast. So I think we'll leave that one and go into the. The media topics here the L in scale stands for leverage in negotiations. structuring the deal. So it drives bottom line profitability for both partners. I'm not going into details on hybrid models between paper posts or straight commission. The thing in general that I've always found that works here. Is just to be transparent. If there's a certain partner really wants paper post give them what they want, but be honest with them and tell them, look, okay, I'll give you what you want. But for me, what I need to make that happen is. We'll just let's give a sample here. So let's say they want 5, 000 for a post and that's relatively high for your budget. it'll make a meaningful impact if it flops. be transparent you can have 5, 000 that works. What I need to make this work on my end is a hundred sales, whatever your numbers are. if they don't hit that, then structure it, they have to do a make good to get there. it's called partnership marketing for a reason. If you can't have open and honest conversations with a partner, you probably shouldn't be partners that's an example of how you can structure these deals. You've got to know your numbers and not all conversions are equal. measure not just conversion rates or CPA or whatever in your tool that you're tracking or, Google Analytics, whatever it is, but you need to measure how effectively does this partner close sales. Versus how much help do they need and assist do they need from other channels? I know you're a sports guy So you've got assists, from other channels I found two effective ways to do this that I that we like doing, you know This is again in our in the agency days. We started developing these kind of methodologies one is with a post purchase survey. That's easy to do. If you're not already doing it, But if you are then maybe the things I'll mention here, we'll tweak it a bit. But it's super cheap to do that. There's like free or probably or 20, 30 a month apps that do this. after someone buys on the order confirmation page, ask them Hey, how did you first hear about us? put the channels you typically market through. If you do meta ads put social media, if you do TV, put that there, for the partnerships perspective, the answer I like to put in the multiple choice is someone I follow online. And then, oh, sorry. One other thing, the tool you choose, make sure it can do like conditional follow up questions. So based on what they choose, you'd ask like a follow up. So if they choose someone I follow online, then ask the follow up who was that, ask them for the details on that name and that's obviously like a, not multiple choice, but a blank, like a text box. And the thing you'll find when you analyze that data is your strongest partners, the one that gets, that actually drive the most sales. Not from what your affiliate tool reports, but like the actual, that have the biggest impact, the strongest partners will get name dropped there and the weakest partners will not as much relatively speaking. So that's one key method

Dustin: 11:58

That's a really interesting like metric to be bringing in and a great way to recruit guys not in your program. If they're name dropping these names and it's happening multiple times, that's a really good good way to approach and like flatter somebody very quickly. Like you've got a lot of our users that are saying they're following you. We think your audience is just matched up perfectly with ours. Who would you like to be a partner? that's a good door.

Haafiz: 12:25

Yeah. Cause it's not always going to be the ones you have formal relationships with. Definitely. The other one I like using is an MTA platform or a multi touch attribution platform. If your budget supports it, it's on the more expensive side But triple whale is like a good mid priced alternative. And what these tools really do is they let you understand your your buyer's journey. So the thing, understanding things like what other touch points are needed. To convert that user. And you can see like the tools will show you like all the unique combinations of channels that like, and we're involved in each sale in how long it took to convert the, the average time to convert a sale, the average number of touch points that each partner had and things like that. So even though your affiliate platform, I say, Hey, these two partners were equal, had equal number of sales. The MTA platform can show you additional insights. And so I remember this one example here where there was two partners with one brand over the same time period, and I think they had left for 800 or so sales each in X period, whatever, I think it was a one month range and partner A had roughly 30 percent of their sales needing no other touch points, whereas, which means that 70 percent needed some sort of an assist from another channel it required a retargeting ad or something else that you were investing in, even if it's not a a fixed cost an ad that was shown, but like even the, your social media or organic search partner B had 65 percent needing no other touch points and 10 days to convert. both partners are paid the same CPA. partner a would be losing money because you're paying the same result or the same input to get an output that needs more help and more investment from your own dollars and other channels to get that same output. So that's where, having an MTA platform can be Extremely helpful to understanding who are your people that are able to close and not need that assist and not need that other investment.

Dustin: 15:24

Beautiful. another big factor is the average order value. One of those big metrics that affiliates like what are the average order value of the products that they're bringing home for you is a big metric. And. helps you pay them more in the long run. the quality of sales from their audience is much bigger. What else is missing in the scale formula?

Haafiz: 15:45

Yeah. a good MTA platform will tell you the retention differences per channel too. if, part A has a Five month lifetime value and partner B has a nine month lifetime value. those are things the platform will show the next one in the scale formula is the E, which stands for exclusivity. to make your offer content content is still king remember that quote, hasn't changed. so how do you position your offer as content? I'll give an example of what this looks like with one brand. Normally their affiliates are able to offer their audience. 20 percent off discount for buying through their link or code we split the year into a week chunk. So 52 weeks a year there was a couple of blackout periods like black Friday and whatever so I think that we ended up with 45 bookable slots that each of the top affiliates was offered the ability to book into those slots. when they booked in, Their offer got upgraded to 25 percent off plus a free gift with purchase. And so for that one week, they could go out to their audience being like, look, this is literally the best deal on the planet that you'll ever find for this product Google it, you won't find it anywhere else. the offer part actually became content because something of that, because what is content? It's something of value that you bring to someone else. That's all the content is. when you're giving the best deal that's content too. It's valuable. Another one I like is what Goalie, Gummies are doing on TikTok Shop. if you, as the influencer, sell half a million within a certain period, you get a Porsche Yeah. It's pretty cool. this is one of the higher end tiers. the next tier up is if you sell a million dollars, you'll get A Lambo or a condo in downtown Miami. I've seen tiktoks of people asking their followers for help to get a new car or home by buying these gummies through their link this offer, even though it's For the influencer turned into content itself, which was a brilliant move on their part.

Dustin: 17:37

Oh, for sure. the affiliates in their landing pages and giving them the best discount, like there is a myth that content and influencers are at the top of the funnel and they're not going to be able to close those deals, but. If you give them the opportunity with this discount, that thing converts way higher than most other products And you don't need those coupon sites to close. Exactly. Awesome.

Haafiz: 18:06

Yeah, I think a lot of people, if you're doing all the A, L and E, like they stop there, I think a lot of people are missing with the S and the C are and so the S in scale stands for solving for the gaps and that's basically bringing the right kind of partners that plug the holes in your buyer's journey. So to understand, to do that, you need to understand what's the weak points in your buyer's journey and then what kind of partners would fill that. my favorite example of this is, a long time ago in the 80s, Nike was not in the early 80s. Nike was not yet considered a cool brand relative to the other competitors back then, like Adidas or whoever. They were looking for someone that they could basically hitch the wagon to that would be highly aspirational and make their products. Because they, they're technically, I'm sure I didn't buy shoes in the 80s, early 80s, but I'm assuming that at least they were technically on par. But they're, they weren't still considered cool enough yet. So they picked. Michael Jordan, as if you've seen the movie or know about the history of Nike to, to, and they signed him and you can't get a more definition of an aspirational figure than the guy who had his slogan after his name be like Mike. That's literally the definition of aspirational. So that obviously ended up having, major change in Nike's brand perception. they identified, it was a desirability gap and yeah, there. And how they fixed that was to sign someone that wouldn't change that. Basically you've got to look at what is that weak point in your buyer's journey? Is it brand awareness trust credibility? education? status or desirability? If you're like a luxury brand and each of those things will have a different kind of partner for example, if it's education, who are you working with a social media influencer putting out short form content? Or are you going to work with, long form podcasts, if that's your biggest gap in your buyer's journey identifying that and then picking partners based on that is, key

Dustin: 20:07

a lot of people are missing. Now that's so key in the recognition of who the kind of partners that you need to be working with is and who you should be targeting out there. And how do you go about Deciding on what constitutes as long form you're not going to find Instagrammers that are doing much long form content, but there might be there long enough to educate somebody. What defines long form in that sense? Yeah, there are definitely examples.

Haafiz: 20:36

rare. You do find longer reels and stuff like that. But it's definitely not common and people are looking for the short bites on social media. I think it depends on the gap in the buyer's journey and how long you need to educate someone If it's education, how long do you need to fill that gap? Is it something that, you could spend three minutes of explanation on if you make it easy to understand Or is it something that needs like a, cause I come from working with a lot of health and wellness products and some of them need a deeper dive, like 10, 20, 20 minute explanation that you couldn't, that you wouldn't, You could do it on social, but like it would be, it's not what people are coming to get on socials like that long form education. They want to sit on their drive listen to a podcast. That's where people are looking for that kind of. Education.

Dustin: 21:21

usually the higher the price tag, the more education you're going to have to give somebody,

Haafiz: 21:26

if you're a niche product or something people haven't heard about before, if you're trying to really, if that's your issue, like I can think of a brand that was like, they've got a lot of one of the brands we work with, they have a, They have, I think almost all except one of the NFL teams using their product. They've got celebrities using their product, but most people would have never heard about them in like the average consumer and they're trying to go now after more mass market approach. And but the product is still very. Like science, like not sciencey, it's a very simple but needs, an explanation So you want to go, so that company literally has hired like podcast advocates that go out on podcasts on their behalf, they've tailored it so that they have certain. Like out of those four hosts, each of them cater to a different demographic group, so they can go on a wide variety of podcasts and, but they know each of them are knowledgeable in the summer. You can spend an hour talking about it.

Dustin: 22:21

how do we wrap this up? one more letter, I

Haafiz: 22:22

There is one more letter. that's C customization of the marketing funnel. the first four were, how to make the deal, who to make the deal. With and how to set up deal terms. The last one is how to execute the partnership. for this understand the deeper use cases of why someone buys a product. I like using my Aura ring as an example. That fits on your finger, obviously it's a ring and you can measure a whole, all a bunch of vitals in your body. In my opinion, it's the best wearable on the market. a quick science lesson. both collagen and testosterone are made while you sleep? So it actually opens up the opportunity to work with two very different audiences. So you could work out, you could do like a workout YouTuber. And that angle could be, sleep better with using aura, which lets you get more testosterone, which gives you better gains at the gym. That's a very logical set of kind of partner and why it makes sense for them to partner. Another example would be a beauty blogger where you sleep better, produce more collagen, get that glowing skin and it's literally beauty sleep. two completely different use cases should have. Two completely different funnels. most programs would dump both users into the same spot. Hopefully a nice top of funnel landing page, but in some cases for brands like. On the homepage neither of those tactics are going to be effective. And the reason is because you never know how people are going to interpret things and you have to make the connections for them. And that's why, a podcast is great, but if you're just coming off a social post even if the influencer educates you and the things I was just saying, you end up on the land or there's no mention of testosterone or there's no mention of. Collagen or skin, now you create that breakage and then you rely on the user memory. Oh, okay. That's what they said in the kid. I can see and they connect the dots themselves. You don't want to do that. You have to connect the dots for people. can I share my screen? I want to share one of my favorite videos of why you have to do this I'll, describe it as well. One second. Let me pull it up Is this coming through? let me blow it up for people listening there's a fire truck on the side of the road outside a fire hall across the sidewalk and it looks like these firemen are hosing down there. Fire truck with not like a big six inch diameter fire hose, which just looks like a regular garden hose. And so we play this here. And so this lady's walking across the sidewalk she's got a grocery bag and what would be, she just normally walk over it, but this, yeah, this is why you have to connect the dots for people. People just do all these weird, like just think all sorts of illogical things. So this lady's walking across. And instead of just stepping over the hose is literally one inch high. She bends down, picks up the hose and wraps it over her head and continues walking by. And the three firemen are just like looking at each other, wondering what the hell happened? This makes no sense I love that example. you just don't know what's going to go through someone's head. And I guarantee you right now that you have a final online. There are people doing the equivalent of that on your landing page. And there's no security cam. This was like a security camera shot. There's no security camera for, I guess there is. You can use tools like. Microsoft Clarity or whatever, but general, unless you're going through every one of them, you don't see what people are thinking you have to make it easy. You have to connect the dots for them. understanding your use cases. I like using the jobs to be done framework for that. Doing customer surveys or another gold mine is just reading your reviews. There's so many awesome things that you'll find in your reviews that are like people will say, Hey, I bought this product looking to solve X, and oh my gosh, it's amazing for that. And whatever that X is that's an example of a use case, the underlying use case. And so understanding your underlying use cases, firstly. And then two bridge the gap for the user, create a customized lander for each use case, or ideally even each partner. And so that then, and then make sure the right traffic goes to the right lander. So that's where we've seen AB tests where using the tools that we build that Inflektion to do this. I've improved conversion rates, 30, 40, 50, and even some cases like 90 percent by just changing the headline and sub headline to match what the traffic coming in was looking for versus the generic one that's on the lander. Even though that generic one was great. It's doing millions on its own, but it wasn't the right fit for that audience. And you just have to connect the dots for people. it's full funnel alignment

Dustin: 27:01

Yeah, gotcha. And I feel like the word customization isn't new into the marketing world, of course, we've always had the AB landing pages and testing. over the last 15 years in marketing I've seen this come and go the word customization keeps coming up from companies, but I don't feel like the technology has been there and it sure hasn't been in the affiliate space. This is the last channel that anybody is going to work on customization of landing pages for so why is it now that the scale formula is really coming to fruition?

Haafiz: 27:33

there's a big bigger and bigger reliance on partnerships. In the brands we see 60, 70 percent of their sales have some sort of. Reliance on partnerships to drive their growth and every successful brand relies on partnerships to some degree or another I think like you have all the other channels that can be so volatile like right now, I know like emails been challenging with changes in the industry this year Paid ads has always been ups and downs. Years ago you had the iOS 14. 5 issues. Last February you had algorithm issues on meta. They just, all the talk on social right now is of these changes coming in the health space on meta That some people are calling, apocalyptic. So there's always just these kinds of changes that are happening from other channels where you don't have full control. the trend with influencers. Has been, in many cases, it's not been a performance channel. It's been like more of an awareness play in a brand play for some brands. And I think that was primarily driven in the period of a low interest rates where these brands would get like very well funded and it would just dump money into all channels, not really looking at the bottom line. That's changed now that interest rates aren't. Free money's not free. And so they actually have to care what the bottom line impacted. So the influencer channels are changing too, and becoming more measured and bottom line oriented. the scale formula can help turn that channel performance oriented. The enablement of personalization of funnels has been hard because you have to sit there with a copywriter writing custom funnel for each. That's not practical It wasn't until two years ago that AI became mainstream. that's fueled all that. And coalesce this trend. And that's getting easier and easier to write copy at scale with AI. I think that's a key reason why this is the right time on the AI front I think that the that's going to actually be driving, ironically driving up the cost of paid ads longterm. the only winners are going to be meta Google, Tik TOK, et cetera, because you have. Ads are auction based, right? Ad platforms are auction based. You have supply demand, you have your supply of ad inventory is literally eyeballs on the site. So assume that's fixed for a moment people aren't, unless there's like Trends in people's usage of social media or whatever platform. your number of eyeballs is constrained by other factors, but the demand for ads will be is what fluctuates, right? Black Friday just finished. It was a huge demand for ads. CPMs go up, CPCs go up, et cetera. So that's how the ad industry works. And when with AI there, like that's definitely going to make creative Making good creative easier, right? That's one of the, it's biggest use cases now. in the short term, you may get a lift and high conversion rate, and that's going to be good for you in the longterm. Everybody's going to have access to those tools. It's democratize making good creative. It's going to democratize good media buying. Whether it's platform tweaks that Google and Meta will do, or whether it's third party tools you latch on and audience generation, all that kind of stuff is changing with AI the demand for ads will increase and as more people are able to get those kind of optimized funnels and all that naturally they're going to want to bid more when you bid more demand goes up when everybody bids more demand goes up and the prices of ads go up. Until the point it doesn't make sense for you. And that's like that new equilibrium in supply demand. over times, people's row ads have been generally fixed on a global scale, whether through changes in the ad industry over digital ads for 20 years. the winners are meta and Google seeing those rises in prices go to their bottom line That's the brilliant stuff from their perspective, supply and demand, equalizes. the more people that get into ads, the more the prices rise to the point where it sets this new equilibrium and they're the beneficiaries of that. you can't rely on using AI to scale with paid ads. there's gonna be more importance on partnerships.

Dustin: 31:35

beautifully said totally agree on all aspects. As we watch Tik TOK affiliate blow up, I think there's still much more room for landing pages to be developed into better. And this. Customize audience and personalization next step. That's going to come in. We're going to see that in the next few years. which is a really big reason why I came on board with Inflektion and you guys, because I saw the cool technology you guys are doing and solving a problem. I want to be part of that solution in the future. So what's next for Inflektion

Haafiz: 32:07

Our North star is to double your conversion rates and have you spend 90 percent less time to achieve that so that you can focus on that, the time aspect is you can focus on building relationships with partners. That's the part that at least I hope that AI automate. If it does, we have probably issues as a human species. But I think a lot of affiliate managers, influencer managers, they spend a lot of time. Twisting dials, doing manual work. And our goal is to be able to automate 90 percent of that and making it so that the funnel performs twice as good. we're building our tooling in that direction. Some big stuff we're going to be launching in Q1 next year is being able to automatically listen to the content that a social influencer emailer podcast is putting out online on their channels, and then automatically making suggestions on how to rewrite your landing page using high converting copy as derived from what that partner is putting out on social understanding, using that to understand what their audiences are interested in and then making it so that you can do that turnkey without having to hire. The team of people to go do that for you.

Dustin: 33:14

If you want to see more on the scale formula, go to this QR code above me, if you want to go check out Inflektion, go check out a demo Inflektion. ai slash demo to get there. Lastly, I, as we wrap this up, how do we connect with you? Haveece.

Haafiz: 33:29

Yeah. So you can find me on linkedin.com/in/haafiz/ or go to inklektion.ai I-N-F-L-E-K-T-I-O n.ai.

Dustin: 33:44

Outstanding. before I leave you, let's explain this post here. I found a picture of you from the past with this stereotypical CEO pose SaaS company. Where did you go? Where did you change this look to what you've got today with the faux hawk and the shade of place and the pose.

Haafiz: 34:00

Wow, I didn't even know that photo existed. I think it said like Pacific. I think that was like. Canadian Pacific Railway in there. I'm from Canada. I saw a train I have to figure that out. I used to have really short hair. I've got it tied up today. since COVID, I haven't gotten a haircut since the lockdown started. I used to have the number one blade on the side. I think it's about time. almost five years since then. I just haven't had the time I now have the desire Get a haircut. My wife really wants me to this Christmas holidays, I'll have the time and go to the barber I've just been growing out my hair

Dustin: 34:32

Oh, great. What a Christmas gift for her. Awesome. appreciate you coming on and sharing your knowledge Friendship over the last six months and working with you. It's been a pleasure. see you out there at peace.

Haafiz: 34:45

great to nerd out with you.

Dustin: 34:47

All right, folks, keep on recruiting Take care.

Haafiz: 34:49

Thanks