Hey folks, welcome to Affiliate Nerd Out. I am your Nerd O Rater, Dustin Howes. Spread that good word about affiliate marketing. You're going to find me here every Thursday at noon on LinkedIn Live. Joining me today, Justin Moore author of Sponsor Magnet and all around awesome creator and influencer of other creators. Welcome to the Nerdatorium, Justin. Dude, Dustin, glad to be here. Glad to be a fellow nerd. And you know what? I'm still trying that author title on for size. That one feels a little weird, but I guess I am. That's what I am now. I feel the same way about giving myself the title of CEO of my old one person company, right? Totally. Totally. Who are the other executives on your team, Dustin? It feels a little weird at first, for sure. But you get used to it. Awesome. That's why I go, that's why I go with Founder, that's the one I do. Founder's. Founder. Yeah. Founder. Founder. That feels better for sure. Yeah.. Alright, I appreciate you joining me today. You've got a book release coming out and I've just been enjoying your content so much. You're helping the greater good out there and I just love the vibes you're doing it and being yourself. And I go team, go. I just, I'm just into you Justin. Thanks for being here. I appreciate it. I'm going to go use some sound. I'm just going to do it. I got some sound effects. Let's go. All right. If you'd like to be a guest and sit in Justin's seat, go to dustinhowes.com/nerd and put in a quick form fill about what you want to nerd out. But. No further ado here, Justin, who are you? I was in a metal core band in high school. Class, classically trained in opera. I'm an Eagle Scout an engineer by trade. And now I'm a sponsorship coach. So the circuitous path that we all have in our lives to get to where we are today. Honestly, the quick story is like my wife and I have been on the internet for about 15 years. I was in medical devices before this man. So I was very much not doing this. But my wife started her YouTube channel just as a side hobby and it started to grow. So she started talking about beauty and, cosmetics and skincare and like her passion and I was very much helping in the background, edit the videos, this type of thing. And then when brands started reaching out, offering free stuff in the beginning, it wasn't like, Hey, we're going to pay you. It was like, Hey, here's a free 30 hair curler. And she was like, yes, we were in like our early twenties at that time. And so no money. So we were like, Oh yeah. Free makeup, free hair stuff. Perfect. Let's go send it over. And that was how it was for years, man. It wasn't like, we were like rolling in it in the beginning. This was like way, when AdSense, the AdSense program first started and it was application only in the beginning for those listening who remember this and. And so for many years it was just the free product game. And then I basically enrolled in an MBA program part time at night after work. And I started taking these classes around like spot, like negotiation and advertising and marketing. And I just the gears started turning and I would read all these comments on my wife April's videos like, Oh, Hey, thanks so much for telling me about this. I just went out and bought it. Or, Oh, I just went to the store. I never heard of this brand. Thanks. I just picked it up and I just, I would, I, Turn to her and I was like something I feel like we're getting the short end of the stick here like a 30 hair curler You're driving serious sales for these brands Like I really feel like they should be paying us money and she was like there's no way That brands would ever pay us money for this. I was like just try like next time they email and so sure enough next brand Hey, do you have a I asked her tell them? Hey, do you have a budget for collaborating with us? And sure enough this brand said sure if you can mention us in two videos per month We'll pay you seven hundred dollars a month for six months and we were like Our minds were blown Dustin because we were only ever used to making this W two, paycheck income. And so it was the very first moment in our lives where we were like, wow, there's like ways in which you can make money in the universe that aren't just tied to the hours that we're putting in. And so fast forward, have made 5 million working with brands, both my wife and I personally but then I also ran an influencer marketing agency for about seven years basically getting Paying out millions of dollars to other creators. So I have both of these kind of perspectives here and this is what led me to ultimately educating creators with my new business creator wizard. Great, man. I love that journey. I love that story. And I think everybody gets to a point where they're running an agency, they're doing it so well. And then one day you wake up and ah, do I really want to service clients anymore? And like you fix that, right? You like, you've got this next step of creating a course, creating a book and like driving that revenue, just love where you're going with it. What a great story, man. Love it. Appreciate it. Yeah. All right. So tell us about creator wizard. What do you do and who do you serve out there? Yeah. So my, my elevator pitch is we teach you how to find and negotiate your dream brand partnerships. Dream partnerships is critical because I think sponsorships feel like a very reactive thing for a lot of up an audience. You're building you're in your little, cave building your own thing. And then one day a brand reaches out, they email you and they're like, Hey, like we'd love to collaborate with you or we'd love to compensate you to talk about our thing. And so it feels Two, two things happen when you get those emails very early on is number one, it feels awesome and exciting because it's like a flex. It's like validation. Wow, all these P, all my friends and family thought I was this weird dude of posting stuff on the internet. And now this like big brand is saying they want to work with me. That's that's awesome. That's like validation. But then in the next breath, you're like terrified because I don't know what to say. I don't know how much to charge. I don't know what would I even do for the brand. And yeah. I think a lot of people go through this moment where they do a couple partnerships and they feel as though I just have to build my audience and they will come. It's a reactive process. I just sit on my hands and wait. And the real game changing thing for my wife and I over the years was when we said, look like, yes, inbound opportunities are great, but we can't rely on that. That's not a predictable source of income. And so we always sought to supplement our inbound deal flow with outbound prospecting and outbound pitching to essentially fill up our sales pipeline. So to speak, I come from the corporate world, right? Where it's okay let's fill up the sales pipeline so that we can make this thing more predictable. And this is really what I focus on in my business creator wizard is helping Creators understand that if sponsorships are a primary revenue source for you, you have to be doing outbound prospecting. And so I teach a lot of the tactics around how to reach out to a brand. How do you say something compelling that will make them want to respond to you and not ghost you? How do you figure out who's the right person to target at these brands? And then really it's the whole life cycle of the relationship with the brand. It's it's not just about, hooking them. It's about how do you fulfill, how do you execute that deal in a way that makes them want to actually turn this into a recurring deal with you. So I really approach it from a holistic perspective. That's incredible. And the concept is the opposite of what I'm doing. I'm reaching out to influencers I think has a good audience for the brands that I'm working for. And I feel like you've got all the bargaining chips, right? What your audience is worth, how much your time is worth, and there's always going to be a negotiation back and forth, but where you're coming to the brand to, to get this conversation started on the brands that you want to work with is so much more convenient for me as a, as the manager of that brand. Let's go, man. Okay, everyone. I say this over and over until I'm blue in the face where it's like, Hey, come to them with a, literally an exact, here's exactly what I want to do for you, right? I'm going to do this, that here's what I think your objective is based on what I've researched about your brand or your client or whatever. Here's why I'm, here's why my audience has already has an existing affinity for the brand that you represent. And here's exactly what I'm going to do for you. I'm going to do two integrated YouTube videos. I'm going to do three newsletter blasts. I'm going to do this, and now it's up to you to be like. Sure. Sounds good. Or, Hey, I love your initiative here. That's not really quite the direction, but how about we do this thing instead? This is what I preach is don't make them do extra work. They don't, you, if someone reaches out to you, you don't know who they are. You don't know what they, what their audience reacts to the best. And so this is what I say is it's so much easier to just give them something to react to rather than being like, we'd love to find a way to collaborate. It's That's an instant delete. Huh? Interesting. We're going to go over a little bit more of what I can do as an affiliate manager or an outreach manager to get your attention a little bit later. But let's get to the topic of the day here. And that is. Sponsor magnet. This is the book that you're coming out with. I've got a QR code. You can go to it right there. Go to. Thank you for doing that, bro. I appreciate that. You were just talking about stuff. Dude, let's go. So tell us about what sponsor magnet is. What is the concept here? Cool. So I've got a real juicy subtitle to the book, how to attract price and execute your dream brand partnerships. And I really go through, I have this thing that I call my eight step sponsorship wheel. So it's the entire process of not just how to, how do you attract these brands, which is the beginning section of the book, but taking you through the entire process. So step one is pitch. Step two is negotiate. Step three is contract. Step four is concept. Step five is produce. Step six is feedback. Step seven is publish and step eight is analyze. So it's this entire process of like, how do you actually create a system, a process that can be standardized across all these relationships that you're doing. You leave an ex a activation with the brand. where they think, wow, that is the most professional creator I've ever worked with. And we're absolutely going to work with them again. The reason why I wrote this book, not, is it not only, is it a complete distillation of everything that I know about brand partnerships, having done hundreds of deals myself, but also done thousands through the agency that I ran. But it's really this gold nugget of understanding that like, if you looked at my wife and I's personal reach on the internet right now. We are essentially at the lowest, like the naive of our influence that we've ever been over the last, let's say 15 years, but we're making the most amount of money that we've ever made. And it's not because of the reach it's because of the when brands hire April and Justin, they know. the product that they are buying. It is speed. It is professionalism. It is hitting every talking point with the plum. It's they know that they're going to repurpose this asset for paid advertising anyway. So that organic reach on our distribution plan our distribution channels, that, that's not as relevant as it once was. And they know that we're just Pleasant. We're nice people. We're not divos or divas. And so I just want to drill into creators heads that there's so many other intangible assets that you have. If you can be, professional, if you can be communicative and responsive, that brands really value a lot because they have these terrible experiences working with creators who aren't those things. And so I think it's this mindset of like, how do you productize, professionalize your operations as a creator when it comes to sponsorship strategy. That's that's brilliant and love that eight step process. One quick question on that I feel like the step between publish and, Analyze their like the interaction with your crowd is a super important component of a hundred percent. Yep. Okay. Totally. I literally have a section about that in the book because this is something a lot of people do. They publish it. And then there's all these questions of the comm in the comments and like, where's the creator? I guess on the beach they have their phone on DND or something. And I'm just like, what is going on here? The brand is refreshing this and being like, what? What is going on here? Yeah, I hear you. Awesome. All right. So sponsor magnet, like when a creator is just getting started and coming and following your steps, what's the first thing that they should be doing if they're starting out as a, an influencer, just getting, their first thousand followers or something. Yeah, at the end of the day, I think it's about understanding that brands or agencies who may want to hire you do a lot of vetting about you before they ever reach out to you. You can probably appreciate this where you may be working with a client and they say, Hey, we want to work with these types of creators. When I ran the agency, we had to do these things. Types of lists all the time where our clients would be like, yeah, send us a list of 30 or 40 people you think would be a good fit. And then we would go out there. We would kick the tires on a bunch of people based on our own sleuthing before we ever reached out to them. And then we would come back to them and say, Hey, here's 30 or 40 people we think would be a good fit. Brand says, sure, these five or 10 look great. Go ahead and reach out. We're interested in collaborating with them. That's when we would reach out to them. And we would oftentimes be desperate for like even basic information about the creators, about their kit. Like so my agency, we were focused on family friendly creators. So we did a lot of work with CPG brands and retail consumer electronics and so on. A lot of times we would need to know. Okay. Okay. Okay. Does the influencer have kids within the ages that we need for this product that the brand wants to promote? So please, dang, just put that dang information in your profile. If you're a family influence, you're a mom influencer on Instagram, put your kids ages in the profile. That helps that we don't want to have to scroll. We would literally, we'd have to scroll back and look for a birthday post. Okay. January, 2021, they said their kid was three. So now that must mean they're six. We would do a lot of this stupid stuff where it was like, look, make the brand's life easier by a lot of this basic information. Yeah. Kids ages, your location, where are you based? If it's a hyperlocal campaign, please put that in your profile. Like brands need to know that type of thing. So there's a lot of these kind of low hanging fruit. Another one, put your plain text email in your Instagram bio, for example, or on your YouTube, community area about section or whatever, because I, as an agency, I do not manage the brand socials. They have hired me as a third party partner. I need to copy and paste your email and put it into my email client and email you. And so I think a lot of people just don't understand like this is just reduce the friction to make it easy for the brand or the agency to envision working with you. Yeah, great points. And one of the biggest frustrations for affiliate managers is going through the application process. And we don't have a clear vision of how you're going to promote this product or like you don't give enough information in your profile. You're going to get declined from trying to join the program. On the other hand, like we can't find you on the database of systems. If you don't fill out your profile and showcase like what you're doing. So such a good point. And like within each profile on the social side of things, a nice link tree is a nice way to be able for people to get your attention and connect with you. And when I don't find any information on that, or it's wasted, it's just so frustrating for me, man. I totally dude, I, that was the bane of my existence when I ran the agency. All right. And so what the creators that you're working with, what do you see is like a baseline of an audience that they have a following who's Before we get started into that sponsorship realm. I want to share something that I talk about called the sponsorship continuum because a lot of creators have this experience where they may have reached out to a brand one time and the brand rejected them because they said that they didn't have the the minimum follower threshold or the minimum reach threshold that they needed to collaborate with them. Maybe it was 10, 000. That's a pretty common one. And so the creator just mistakenly assumed Oh I guess this That's what every brand thinks. I guess I'm just going to have to wait until I get to that point. And so my counterpoint to that to that is that first of all, yes, I understand there are some brands who have those requirements, but when you are reaching out, let's just assume you have, let's say a thousand followers or a thousand LinkedIn followers or a thousand YouTube subscribers, whatever. And you're getting a couple hundred views on average for your YouTube videos. If you were to reach out to a brand and say, Hey, let me talk about you on my YouTube video. They're going to, they're going to look at that and be like, you know what? This is really not going to move the needle for us. And so you can't fault them in that regard. However, you know what would have been a better pitch? is if you went to them and you looked at their YouTube channel, you looked at their blog, you look, Hey, does this brand have a podcast? Do they have, social media, are they posting on social media is a good content. And then you reach out and you say, Hey you know what? I just did an an audit of your overall social presence. I actually think you could be telling your brand story in a more compelling way. I would love to create some content for you. to utilize on your website, on your blog, on your social media for your paid advertising. And I can do this on autopilot. I'll send you five, 10 videos a month, whatever post podcasts, newsletters, whatever. Hey, go by the way, go take a look at my YouTube channel. Go take a look at my podcast. That serves as my portfolio. So it's a very different type of pitch when you're in the beginning. And then yes, let's say you grow. Now you're getting a thousand views on average or something. Yeah. Maybe your pitch can be a combination now, combination of consulting content for the brand to use, and then, yeah, maybe posting on your channels or your website. is starting to become meaningful for the brand. Now you've achieved serious scale. You're getting tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of, downloads, views, whatever. Then yeah, of course the thrust of your pitch can be, let me talk about your brand on my platforms. It's going to be really meaningful for you. So this sponsorship continuum I think is a really helpful framework to orient you of based on where I'm at, this is who and what I should pitch. Okay. Awesome. I totally agree. If you're allowing the brands to white label your content, it's a great way to start getting some traction and especially like creating those case studies. For a little bit later so that you can pitch to the other brands. A hundred percent case studies are huge for sure. Awesome. So with all that in mind, like I've been an influencer for a while. I've grown this podcast, I've grown the audience all organically for what I've done my YouTube channel. But I am not in the, and I get sponsors. I've got a sponsor coming up. There we go. And it's all like minor stuff. I'm just trying to pay for my my bills every week for the for all the technology that I'm using, cause those bills stack up. But at this point I've got 14, 000 followers on LinkedIn and I don't know what to do with that. I don't know what kind of leverage, like I know thresholds of like a hundred thousand followers on Instagram means that you rate this much sponsorship, but I don't know what that means on LinkedIn. Can you like give me a rundown on what that should look like? A hundred percent. All right. So let's do some, can we do a real time case study for you? I think this would be a lot of fun. So I'm going to share my screen. I'm going to share my screen here and maybe you can pull this up. All so we've got your your LinkedIn profile pulled up here. Okay. So tell me, Dustin, look, give me the names of like a dream brand or two that you would love to collaborate with on your LinkedIn. Oh, okay. Oh man. On the spot. On the spot you got on the spot. Great. Let's say tools that are useful in this space. I think affiliate. com was a great sponsor of mine, so we can start with that. I think that's a super relevant. We can go there. You know what, do AFI stash too as well., this is my company, but want to see how you approach it in this kind of fashion. How I would approach it. So this is your company. It is my company. Should I give you an example? Give me one that would, yeah, give me like a affiliates. com is good. Give me one more. Give me one more. Let's just go with impact. com. Okay. Impact. com. Okay. Okay. We're going to pull up. Okay. So let's actually do impact. This is a good one. Okay. Okay. So the very first thing I want, if I, let's say I'm you and I'm thinking, okay, I want to collaborate with impact. Impact. The very first thing that I teach is something called the rope pitching method. So R stands for your pitch. When you reach out to them has to be relevant to a campaign that they're either currently wanting running or have run in the past. Oh, stands for organic, meaning that you can tie your pitch back to organic content. that you've already published that illustrates that your audience has an affinity for the brand's product. Okay. P stands for proof. So you can show how you've helped other brands achieve results. And E stands for easy to execute when you reach out and they say, yeah, this is interesting. What did you have in mind? So if I'm going to impact and I want to see what I love doing is the very first thing I love to do, I'm going to open up their LinkedIn. I'm going to open up their Instagram. I'm going to open up their YouTube channel and I just want to see what are they posting on the internet right now? So let's take a look at their their LinkedIn profiles. Okay, so let's see what posts that they're doing. So they're posting every, so they've got four hour posts here. Let's go to show all posts. Okay. So they did a 2024 recap. Okay. So the first thing that I would do would watch this video, their recap video to see if they talk about what they're doing. What is on the roadmap for 2025 that would be the first thing I would do. Okay. Okay. So 2024 was the year of wellness. Okay. This is four hours ago, six painful stages of finding influencers. Okay. So this could be something interesting that you look at. Okay. Another thing, let's go to their Instagram. So here's one next level tactics. So I'm on there I'm on their Instagram right now. So let's say we're sitting here in January. And we want to pitch impact. We are not going to pitch them some, Hey, new year, new you type campaign or new strategy for January, this type of thing that is too late. They have probably at a company like impact has probably planned out their marketing strategy at least three or six months in advance. So if you want to pitch impact, I want to go back and see what campaigns were they running last Q2. Okay. Okay. So I'm going to scroll back on their Instagram and I'm going to go, okay, March 28th. So we just got there becoming a brand ambassador. Okay. So this is throwback to IPX 23. Okay. Impacts partners. This is perfect. April 11th. What is impacts partnership experience? It's our flagship event bringing together these attendees. Where is it? New York city. Okay. Here's your pitch Dustin. You ready? I'm ready. Okay. Hey, I see I see that you are you have your impact partnership experience event, your IPX every year in New York city. I was curious, are you going to be running that event again in 2025? I would love to help spread the word about that. I would love to do a sponsorship, a dynamic pre roll insertion on my entire back catalog of my podcast, driving for ticket sales to the event. Here's how I've worked with brand XYZ in the past. Are you free on Thursday at 10 a. m. to talk about this? Ooh, okay. Love, love the call to action there too. Beautiful. Yeah. So does this, is this making sense? So like this took what? Three minutes of research. And we and here's the deal. This is what they have marketing budgets for Dustin. Okay. They have marketing budgets for their own initiatives. You think their flagship event is a big deal for them? Yeah. It's a huge deal for them that this is what they care about. And so here we are, in January and this is three months down the line. Yes. I would love for you to talk about on your on your profile, you could do some. podcast pre rolls, but you could also do a series of 10 posts on your LinkedIn talking about this IPX event. And Hey guess what, by the way, Hey, want me to come and do some live podcasts in your booth at IPX 25. I'll come and do that. I'll bring my mobile rig. I'll give you some, I'll hire a photographer to come and do some videos of it and photos that you can repurpose on your social media. There's just like a rabbit hole of stuff that you could potentially pitch once you know what's important to them. And this is really the thrust of it. It's not about, Hey, I've got 14, 000 followers on LinkedIn. Want to collaborate impact? They don't give a crap. They don't care about that. They care about themselves and their own initiatives. And that's what they have budgets for. Come strong, come specific, and come prepared to that call to tell them what you're asking for, right? 100%. 100%. That's it. What's in it for them? Awesome. I am going to take that advice and I'm going to thank one of our sponsors currently, and that's Gizmo. I've been using Gizmo for the last month, and this is an ultimate tool for publishers out there to create high quality, optimized content in minutes and not hours. With Gizmo, you can easily Craft product reviews, roundups, comparison articles, deals, pages, listicles, easily customizable and suitable for your audience and style. Gizmo's intuitive dashboard generates SEO written content and with your affiliate links, adding them seamlessly into it. Go give this thing a try. Dustin nows. com slash gizmo and check out a free trial. I can't emphasize this enough. Super cool product. And it's that next level of AI that we've been looking for in the publishing side of things. So go give it a look. All right. As we wrap things up here I want to ask you a question from an affiliate manager standpoint that's reaching out to you. How do you like to be approached? Okay. I'm so glad that we got to this question because there's a very simple thing that you can do as an affiliate manager, as someone who represents brands, who wants to engage with creators. It's have a very clear. Vision of what success would look like when you collaborate with this creator and be realistic about it One of the things I talk about is like the three kind of campaign goal types that brands Have when they collaborate with creators. The first is awareness. So it's arc by arc framework awareness R is repurposing and C is conversion. I think very relevant to a lot of folks listening here is probably you're doing a lot of conversion focused campaigns. But understanding that if you're going to engage with the creator, the likelihood of having a outsized performance with a single activation typically is usually pretty low, right? And so I think that understanding that there needs to oftentimes be a larger sample size for a creator to talk to their audience about a potential product. And. And for that audience to continue to see them use and love that product repeatedly over a time span you're absolutely going to see a better result. I always go back to the marketing rule of seven, which is a Maxim that was developed by the movie studios in the 1930s, where basically they did a ton of research that found That, it took an average of seven times for a consumer to see the trailer or message about a movie for them to actually get their butt in the seat. And I think that same logic can be applied to doing these types of affiliate campaigns where it's yeah, one activation is great, but Hey what would it look like if we did seven touch points across, six months or something like that or across a couple months? I think having this balance. Broader perspective and being able to tell that story to your superiors or your client or your boss about why that's important, I think is pretty important. And so I think creators, when you're approaching them with that mindset, they'll very much appreciate that because creators are all like just full disclosure here, creators are scared or they're terrified of not performing. Candidly, right there. They're really worried that if, a brand pays the money and they don't drive sales and the brand's going to hate them or the agency is going to hate them. And which is why oftentimes creators don't follow up and be like, Hey, how'd it go brand? Because no creator wants to hear, Hey, we hate you. You didn't make any sales. We're never working with you again. And we're telling all of our friends never to work with you, right? That this is in their head, the dialogue that they think is going to happen. In reality, like that's not. You'll almost never, that'll almost never happen. But I think just like being upfront about that idea that Hey, we get it. It's going to take a little while to see some results. I think creators will appreciate that. Okay. Awesome. Awesome tips there and having a long term commitment or long term strategy goes a long ways as well. But how about for the brands that don't have that budget that the sponsor like needs, or even like rates, essentially, if they've got a hundred thousand followers on Instagram and some really great engagement, but I don't have a budget in my brand. Is there any way to talk them into that essentially? Is there any way to approach that conversation? 100%. The way I always look at it is doing a, an analysis of what is important in that creator's world. So for example, let's say that you came to me, Dustin, and you said, Hey, I want you to talk about my, I want you to talk about Afistash. That's what I want you to do. And what would it take for you to do that? And the conversation that we would have is, I would, we would talk about what the investment would look like. And you come back to me and you say, Justin, I don't have that kind of cash to sponsor you outright. What could we do to, what could we make that happen? We say Justin, good to know. Guess what? I have an email list of 10, 000 customers. For my brand, for my software tool, what if as part of this deal, I emailed all 10, 000 of those people about your book launch. And I'd be like okay. I'd be like, Oh, okay. Yeah, let's talk. Let's figure something out here. And so I think this is just an example, but like knowing that, let's say a creator has a course that, might be relevant to your brand's, customer base. Like maybe there's a webinar that you can do in partnership with them that it would expose your customer base to the creators product. I think that not enough affiliate managers think about doing these kind of holistic campaigns and just understanding like what is important to this creator at this current time and figuring out a way to make it win. Oh, that's an incredible lever to pull you to pull out of the back pocket. And I've struggled with this for a long time with influencers. I've got the content creators and what's going to motivate them. But the influencers, that's such a brilliant tactic. Really appreciate you. That's going to help a lot of affiliate managers out there. I guarantee. All right, man as we wrap up one last thing we have to get to we know go to sponsor magnet. com or hit that QR code, but you've got to defend your posts now. So get in here and showcase what you've got just recently. Why in pound deals are a trap create course, go deeper into the brand deal wizard program. Why did you post this? Why do you I think we've gone over this kind of extensively today, but for the most part, you feel like these are a trap altogether when the brand approaches you. Yeah. This is a spiky little little hook, of course. But what inbound deals are great. That's ideal, right? Is this like people coming in saying, Hey, we want to pay you money. Sure. That's good. But what I found is that inbound deals are almost always what I call fully baked, where you come to me, Dustin, and you're like, Here's the campaign. Here's what I want to promote. Here's the talking points here. Much. I'm here's how much I'm willing to pay you. Take it or leave it. Right. This is the perspective that oftentimes brands come to creators with. And so the ability for creators to negotiate or have any sort of creative input into how this campaign comes to life is drastically reduced for inbound opportunities. And what I say is that when you are the one reaching out and Proposing something, it's much more of a blank slate. Perhaps they may even allocate a budget just for you because of this idea that you're coming to them with that they may not consider before. And this is really what I mean, meant by this post is again, you've got to be supplementing those inbound opportunities with these outbound pitches, because I think you'll find those to be the most lucrative that you'll ever do. Outstanding. All right. Really appreciate all these nuggets of wisdom here today. Justin, how do we connect with you here? Dude sponsormagnet. com is where you can grab the book. I've got a massive amount of bonuses that come with the book as well. I have my entire sponsorship tracker template that I created in notion, which I'm giving away for free with the book 15 negotiation scripts to help you interact with your, these brands that you're negotiating with, just a litany of bonuses that comes with it. And then I've got a completely free newsletter. At creator wizard. com slash join if you're an affiliate manager who wants to just immerse yourself more in this space and kind of understand how creators are thinking about this. I've got about 35, 000 creators on there. And and also, oh, also this is important for everyone listening is I am actively like my goal is to help everyone get more deals all the people in my community. And so if you are a, an affiliate manager who has Any sort of flat rate opportunities that you want to get in front of creators. It's completely free to do that in my weekly newsletter. So I have a mechanism to do that. So yeah, so come on over. I'll send you, I'll send you the form. I basically have this section in my Thursday newsletter where it's like opportunities that you can click on and apply basically. So it's completely free. We don't take a cut. We're just trying to help serve creators. Hit me up. Incredible. I will absolutely hit you up for that. And there's going to be a slew of affiliate managers that might take advantage of that. So I'm really glad you brought that up and thank you so much. Appreciate your time, buddy. Absolutely, man. Thanks again for having me. All right, folks, keep on recruiting and we'll see you out there. Take care.