Dustin: 0:27

Hey folks, welcome to affiliate nerd out. I am your nerd orator, Dustin Howes. Spread that good word about affiliate marketing. You're going to find me here on LinkedIn live every Thursday at 12 o'clock Pacific time. So put it on the calendar, stop on by for me. my guest today, William Skipper, affiliate my Nerditorium, William.

William: 0:52

Hey, everybody. It's a great to be on the pod. Excited to nerd out about affiliate marketing, specifically in lead gen. I've been watching Dustin's podcast since he started doing this, maybe eight months ago it's an honor to be on Dustin. Thank you.

Dustin: 1:05

Well, I appreciate you being a fan and a supporter all this time. And when I met you at London at PI live, we had a quick conversation, I asked you to be on this because I just love your attitude. I love the branding that you're doing with affiliate, my business and what you've got going on is a very niche. Demographic of clientele that need to be serviced. And I'm glad I'm here to pick your brain today.

William: 1:30

And jumping right in, so my business, we are a niche service provider for affiliate marketing. we focus on lead gen and subscription service businesses. there is a whole world out there, in terms of, I know we always focus on e commerce and retail, for affiliate marketers specifically. But through, my 10 years now in affiliate marketing, I've been blessed to work with companies like Sprint Wireless and the Home Depot and their installation services program. that has led me to, the subscription. And, services world of affiliate marketing. It's been a blessing.

Dustin: 2:02

Oh yeah. I did see that home Depot on your LinkedIn profile. That's a big name to be having on there. That's that's awesome. But, before we get into that, I want to invite everybody to be in we'll see, come be my guest, go to dustinhowes.com/nerd. com slash nerd and drop in a phone number. Form fill that says, Hey, this is what I want to nerd out about. And then we can come and you can be in Will's seat. Will, tell us about who you are before we get rolling.

William: 2:31

my name is William Skipper. I have, close to 10 years experience in affiliate marketing. As I mentioned, Sprint Wireless. The Home Depot. I am right now. in Washington, D. C. Visiting family for New Year's, I spend about six months out of the year in Aguadilla, Puerto Rico doing surfing, working from the laptop and really enjoying that side of things. I've worked all up and down the East Coast from Washington, D. C. To Atlanta and now out in Puerto Rico. I guess that's kind of tells you a little bit about me from my professional background. as far as my personal background, I'm a big football fan. The Washington commanders are doing great right now. We've got a real hot shot quarterback playing for us now. well, I love the outdoors. I'm big into fishing, camping, and well, I'll tell you what, it's going to be out four degrees here next week. so I'll be indoors the next couple of weeks, but, I am a big avid outdoorsman as well.

Dustin: 3:19

Oh, yeah. the Redskins, as I like to call them, they're making a vibe back for that logo, I hear. So, that might change from Commanders back to Redskins, which would, be an interesting move. but, yeah.

William: 3:31

I have been a Staunch proponent. I'm not a commander's guy. if anything, I was trying to push the narrative for the D. C. native. Kind of like the Utah Jazz or, something more that has the roots of our community. but I do bleed burgundy and gold, for Washington.

Dustin: 3:48

Yeah, they're running hot. you guys drafted well. And you talked a little bit about affiliate, my business, what you do and who you serve out there, but you are very specific in focusing on lead generation companies. Can you tell us a little bit more about that and the clientele you're serving out there?

William: 4:06

Absolutely. So today i'll be frank with you. We are new to this business i've had the experience and the blessing of working for Large brand companies and brought that knowledge with me to affiliate my business we've been in business for just under a year we've had the blessing to work with a few great companies mainly in the online gaming space we have a few contracts with businesses that are doing minecraft server hosting if you imagine subscription services for people that want to buy a Minecraft server, want to post their friends and, be on the same service together. And we are reaching out and working with them to partner with influencers, affiliates, drive high quality leads, keep their subscriptions up with the least amount of churn possible.

Dustin: 4:46

Interesting. and that's very. Unique in this space that is overwhelmingly rev share or if it's not, it's CPA based, in terms of affiliate, you know, commissions out there, the lead based generation, something I don't understand completely. And it's good that you're specifically getting into this, So, that is our topic of the day and that is best practices of B2C LeadGen. tell us a little bit about what B2C LeadGen is to start off.

William: 5:21

Absolutely. So B2C LeadGen, I'll give the easiest example I can I love home services, home service marketing is really my go to bread and butter. when we're talking about home services, we're talking about countertop installations, roof installations, flooring installations, window installations. We all have some kind of home project that we need to get work done. But a lot of times, we don't know where to go or, what the best service provider might be. And so we need a, conduit, a affiliate that's going to be able to, provide a great recommendation. So when I say that we're talking better homes and gardens, Angie's list, those types of companies directing leads to reputable service providers, we partner with them on a cost per lead, what's most important about that though, is to note, for those that aren't in the lead gen space. Is that it's not like retail. It's not like e commerce. We are not, we are not, in the world that an immediate, cart, an immediate cart sale happens the cookie fires and there's a, there's a rev share opportunity there we are having to partner first, second off, our, our ecosystem of partnerships, business to business are, are, are immense. We have to work with lead distribution technologies, consent platforms, Because this consent that we're receiving to contact a consumer, at the end of it has to be valid, it has to be compliant. And so for that reason, we have to track this consumer for three months until a user puts in a home service installation lead to the point where They get their service done, which may be let's say a twenty thousand dollar counter top But in that case the affiliate is not going to wait that long to get a rev share. That's three months down the line. They want a cost per lead immediately. They want to see how many quality leads they can drive to you And how much that's going to cost and how much they're going to earn from that in that month.

Dustin: 7:07

Excellent representation of what that is. Thanks for sharing. so what kind of products you mentioned like those installation services, what are all the types of products that are going to be a fit for, B2C lead gen campaign?

William: 7:21

the home services niche is laden with tons of products. Solar. Is a massive driver for lead buyers right now. There are companies that want you to get a piece of that solar business. but I would say, like I said, there's a litany of different businesses that can, that can, that can benefit from this kind of lead gen affiliate marketing. today insurance providers are buying leads on a CPL. There are tax software systems that are buying leads on a CPL business to business SAS technology that are looking for leads because they have, sales teams. They have a phone bank that once they get that lead. They're going to have the technology to say, Hey, we've received a lead in our CRM. You've passed it to us through impact radius, commission, junction, what have you. And that way they can call out to that user, make the opening discussions, their sales team can take that lead all the way through to the sale. And that's that subscription.

Dustin: 8:09

And, with that, like the CPL. Every client's going to be a little bit different depending on their margins and how fast that they're closing these clients and these leads that they're bringing in. So in your role, are you helping them establish what the right CPL is going to be for the partners that you're bringing in?

William: 8:28

Absolutely. So that is a big part of our whole game. It's really feeling out where the competition is bidding versus where we want to be, in terms of the best quality leads that we can buy. And then the validity of these leads as well. You actually touched on a great point there as well is the speed to lead. I've had many a time where we had issues with our speed to lead. let's say we buy 10, 000 window installation leads at 50 bucks a pop. if you can't service that lead within a month and a half. that lead is a real person on the other end of the phone that wants to get their windows installed before, the cold sets in. Right. And so let's say the brand, the team that you're working with, they can't service the lead for four months. Well, you just paid. maybe 50, 000 to go ahead and, not be able to service the leads that you just bought, that lead is going to go to the next business and say, Hey, how fast can you install my windows?

Dustin: 10:05

All right. So yeah, speed to lead, that's a term I've never heard before. And that's unique to your space. from what I've seen in the space, like a CPL. It's much like a CPA. It's a flat rate. and it's going to vary depending on the partner and like the validity of their leads and the history you have with them. let's take one specific niche. You keep bringing up windows. Let's roll with windows like window installation. What's a good appropriate. Early CPL that you would establish based on the margins and their closing rates,

William: 10:37

Absolutely. So the general range for a window installation, and remember this Dustin, it's not just one window let's say there's a whole home that needs 22 windows. that lead is a lot more valuable than a one window install it really does depend on the quality whether or not we're receiving leads that are going to be 22 Or one but I would say we start in the range of about 60 dollars per lead

Dustin: 11:02

Let's say you get an affiliate that's a great partner is there room to increase that CPA as time goes on with them?

William: 11:09

What you're touching on is the importance of the relationship that you keep with your affiliate partnerships and what data that you're providing to them to show them how, how competitive they are against their, affiliate competition. we partner with our lead distribution and tracking software systems to report back to our affiliates and say, you have a close rate with such and such business that is in fourth or fifth place compared to the rest of our affiliates, you know, you're going to be in the bronze tier of our, of our payouts. if you want to get up into the gold or platinum tiers, you're going to have to provide us with more first party lead sources. now this was back in the time where we were still buying third, third party and first party leads from affiliates, which is going to be much different. in the new year, because the FCC has introduced new legislation or the one to one consent that is now required by data brokers working with businesses.

Dustin: 12:00

Oh, that's interesting. with that, the CPL and you build that trust in that relationship, are there opportunities for you guys to, pay out on a rev share as well? Do you ever build programs where. You start with the CPA or CPL, you pay out that 50 for every lead, but every one of those that closes, they get an extra thousand dollar bonus of some sort. Is that the kind of strategy that you would suggest or you ever build out with these campaigns?

William: 12:29

No, I would say I wouldn't get too far into the weeds just beginning. If you're just bringing on a new affiliate. Make sure you start with a CPL, keep it simple. And we'll let them know this is the reigns that we're willing to offer. And this is where your competition is getting right now. This is what our highest producers are receiving, if you want to get a little complicated, a little bit tricky, there is opportunities to pay on a cost per appointment as well. you say rev share, I've never had a situation where affiliates wanted to wait so long to receive a rev share. But we do have the flexibility to change our commissioning structures based on if it's an appointment, if it's a closed sale. and that type of thing.

Dustin: 13:05

Yeah. And I've worked with businesses in the service industry that you've mentioned, and. I've, they came to me thinking that this is going to be a rev share opportunity, but I told them the timeframe of click to sale and fulfillment is too long for affiliates to be interested in. the lead is the way to go. sounds like you're in that same kind of mind frame with the clients that you're taking on, like that rev share. might be over complicating things So, let's move into the biggest difference between a CPA campaign, a CPL campaign and RevShare. what are some of the things you're seeing that are different from your traditional affiliate?

William: 13:53

I would have to say that the requirements for enterprise technology. to have a, a JV as, as I've heard, you mentioned it before, with technology service providers, as I mentioned, lead distribution platforms like data bowl, and others that are able to provide the system One that directs the lead to its end point, but also sends it back. So not only do we send the lead, data information to the businesses, that information needs to go back into the affiliate tracking system, to tell our affiliates what the disposition is. disposition is a fancy word for what happened to the lead. Once I sent it, did it close? is it invalid? Is it unqualified? the biggest difference in running a CPL or CPA versus a rev share campaign is there's just many more technology providers involved in keeping track of the data when you're thinking about a CPL or CPA campaign.

Dustin: 14:48

Okay, gotcha. Phonexo was a proud sponsor of affiliate nerd out in the past. And, I know that has to be one of the, main components that you're using to help strategize and track these kinds of things. what other technologies are you using to help bridge that gap there?

William: 15:07

Yes, so Phonexa, it's funny you mentioned them because I was actually with the Phonexa team out in London when we met each other. they're a big player in lead distribution as well as call tracking So we all know that call tracking, even now with Ringba, the big player in the space, it's always been a little bit, of a, of a, not an afterthought, but it's been a, an unknown box. how do we bring that into the, the affiliate space and, and make sure that we're tracking, but we're not losing tracking when, when, when we drive a user to a homepage and they end up calling instead of going through a lead form, but for next day is a great answer for that because they provide, both, both in one, we are teamed up with the next, affiliate, businesses to provide our, our automation bars, tracking leads, as well as call tracking as well. So they are a great group and a great technology service provider to be able to partner with if you're talking cpa cpl affiliate campaigns

Dustin: 15:57

yeah, and I think that puts The partners you're working with at ease to know that their leads and traffic they're sending you is actually going to convert they're gonna look good and, feel relieved that their leads are going someplace so they can build on that relationship.

William: 16:12

let's talk about.

Dustin: 16:14

Go ahead.

William: 16:14

You mentioned technology service providers, technologies that we are working with. I also wanted to mention Unbounce. Unbounce has become, one of the most important landing page builders that we've ended up, starting to use in the new year, because the, as I mentioned, that new FCC regulation with one to one consent. this has changed the whole game in terms of lead gen affiliate marketing, because now we go from in the past being a data broker, we would simply work with affiliates and pass that lead information onto our business partners so that they could go ahead and service that lead what's happening now with the FCC changes, and this is they've closed the consent loophole, where you're able to sell leads to multiple service providers. When you provide your, your information to, let's say a business, a service directory, and they end up selling it to multiple businesses, you get 20 calls from different service providers. Everybody hated that. And so that's what this one to one consent legislation was looking to fix. it changes our role as affiliate marketers from data brokers, where we're just passing the information along to data owners. So now Our group is partnering with Unbounce to build out either DBA business landing pages or unique landing pages that we are, we're spinning up and driving our affiliate traffic too. So we will end up asking our affiliates now. That, Hey, it's not only enough that you drive, users to our business partners homepage, but we need you to drive, we need you to drive traffic to our, our own landing page, the ones that we're own owners and operators of. In order for us to have that first party consent all the way through the pipeline.

Dustin: 17:47

Oh, that's smart. I haven't had the pleasure to use them yet, but I'll give them a look that's a great tip. And as far as. B2C lead generation, what kind of partners are you really working with? You mentioned influencers, but I can't envision somebody that's, you know, maybe like, Tim, the tool man, Taylor is an influencer of, home improvement services out there, but what type of partners are really the needle movers out here?

William: 18:13

So this is where we get Into the millennial sphere these are the streamers These are the live streamers that we're talking to those involved in gaming Those involved in music scenes those that have a cult like following on their live streams day in and day out we'll partner with them and provide them with a cost per lead and they are very happy to work with us In terms of those opportunities with our current clientele in the online gaming space.

Dustin: 18:40

beautiful. we're going to take some time to thank our sponsor of the day. And that is inflection. inflection. Is the only partner platform out there, personalized funnels to scale partnership marketing for brands, agencies, influencers, and affiliates. This is one of the specialties of what Inflection does, matching that lead with the audience. And landing page that is appropriate for that lead to help them convert is one of the big strong points of inflection Build these landing pages in a matter of minutes instead of weeks with your development team. I'm personally recruiting partners for the brands that we work with here. So if you're a brand or agency, come check out a demo and let's talk affiliate. Go to dustinhowes. com slash inflection or dustinhowes. com slash inf and learn more about that and switching gears. I know you're also into the space of B2C subscription models as well. Can you give us a quick rundown of subscription services that are working on CPL, CPAs, rev shares? How does it work out there?

William: 19:51

let's go to our general view. of that space. let's give an example and say telecom wireless service providers, eSIMs specifically, when you go to a different country and you're looking to still communicate with your family, you need to get a physical SIM card. You just need an eSIM that you'll download on an app, which is a subscription service that these guys provide. They just download it right into your app store and your phone. And then you have access to that SIM like experience where you can now, touch base with your family and, communicate with them where we come in the back end into shape with that is. Providing those eSIM providers with quality affiliates that are going to drive high value. I'd say almost like a kayak esque kind of, service where people are looking to go on trips. we'll partner with, an affiliate that's talking about the best trips coming up in 2026, the best discounts. What do you need when you go on trips? An eSIM. You need data.

Dustin: 20:40

So you're looking at complimentary services. This is a good fill in for them. and the type of partners is in the same genre of what you're doing in that B2B, B2C lead gen space.

William: 20:54

Well, you know, these guys are much different than what we are used to. The, the eSIM spaces is, is, is a unique one in itself. These guys are actually one of the ones that you had recommended me to, with sprockets, if you remember them, Dustin and, those guys are crushing it right now, and I'm happy to see that.

Dustin: 21:11

All right. And what do you see as the biggest differences in that B2B B2C subscription service space compared to e comm fighting churn,

William: 21:20

fighting churn is the biggest, worry for, B2C subscriptions, in the online gaming space, you have to keep the attention of those users that are, 15, to 25 These guys are gamers. They're looking for the next best game, whoever's playing, whatever's the most fun out there, whoever has the biggest servers. we have a service revision with our online gaming folks that. The churn rate is nearly, two months and they're gone. that's not what you want to see when you're looking for a, quality lead. You're looking for a lead that's going to last at least six months. Somebody that's going to stick with you and provide, because these online gaming servers where you're buying, you're not paying too much, maybe 15 a month. Nobody's going in their pockets and spending over a hundred dollars unless you're really getting a dedicated server which a lot of people won't understand the big point for fighting for the quality churn rate and the quality of leads is For the subscription businesses is the the real the real nitty gritty and not only that but in the e sim space You imagine people only go on vacation for let's say a week or two. Do they need an e sim for that that long? No But we need to find ways to keep them attentive and interested. That way we can keep that churn rate down for these businesses.

Dustin: 22:31

Churn rate. I hear ya. subscription models are a different kind of beasts that we can get into in another episode. But as we wrap hip here, it is time for you to defend your posts. So I want you to tell me a little bit more about your Boy Scout years. I see that you're an Eagle Scout. tell me about that experience and how it transitioned into marketing and what you're doing here.

William: 22:54

Believe it or not, Dustin, my mother would not allow me to even be on LinkedIn. If I didn't mention that I was an Eagle Scout, my, my, my, my Eagle Scouts, award was, was probably one of the highest honors that, that as a young man. I achieved because how much dedication and reliability it took for my high school years in order to, to achieve the Eagle Scout award. It's, it's not, it's not something easy and now men and women both can enjoy the spoils of being Eagle Scouts, it really does show the commitment and reliability out of, out of, And our business affiliate, my business as a service provider, that's, we're not going to give up on you. We're going to work hard for you until the end, until we have the spoils, until we have that award. and I love that you bring that up. it really does speak to my reliability and, my dedication to finishing the job and making things work.

Dustin: 23:46

Well, I am a big fan of, early in your career, having some kind of self discipline and generating that kind of experience my Marine Corps experience. stuck with me throughout my entire career to the person that I am today. being an Eagle Scout took dedication and that's something people want to see on resumes and something that sticks out. I was a Boy Scout for a while, but, I found my family being fishers and hunters, I got out into the wild plenty. Thank you

William: 24:18

so much for your service,

Dustin: 24:19

Oh yeah. No worries, buddy. All right. Well, thanks for your time here. How do we connect with you?

William: 24:25

follow me on LinkedIn. I'm trying my best in 2025 to be A personal brand. you can follow me at will skipper, on LinkedIn or at affiliate, my business. We have a handle for our business page as well. I'm not so active on instagram or youtube yet but I hope this is a A start for me in that in that i'll have the confidence to keep on keep on rolling in 2025 So follow me on linkedin, please reach out to me anytime you want with a message You can also go check us out on at affiliatemybusiness. We are actually going live We're launching our website here in just the next couple days. it may even be up, before we head to lead gen world in florida, on january 5th 2025 please visit us if you're interested if you're a lead gen business Whatever kind of business you are in the lead gen or subscription space. I would love to chat with you. That's it. that's all for me

Dustin: 25:11

by the time this is live, which is going to be late January, you will, have that website up. So go check it out. affiliate, my business. com. thanks so much for being here. Good to see you, buddy. we'll see you around

William: 25:22

Looking forward to seeing you next time.

Dustin: 25:24

All right. Take care folks.