Dustin: 0:47

Hey folks, welcome to affiliate nerd out. I am your nerd orator, Dustin house. Spreading that good word about affiliate marketing. You're going to find me here every Thursday at noon on LinkedIn live. So put it on the calendar and join us. My guest today, Gigi Robinson, speaker, authoritarian in the influencer space, paid partnerships, guru. Welcome to the Nerdatorium Gigi.

Gigi: 1:12

Thank you. What a name. I'm honored to be here.

Dustin: 1:17

Awesome. Tell us about you. What do you do?

Gigi: 1:21

That's a great question to ask. Unlike a lot of creators I Focus a lot on being what I like to call a creatorpreneur focused on building my personal brand building out more so than just Using my social platforms, but doing public speaking, writing books, hosting events and webinars and so much more. So that is kind of what I do and my niches are in, yes, of course, helping creators and educating them on different ways to grow and scale in their businesses, but also in women's health advocacy.

Dustin: 1:58

Oh, excellent. And the speaking opportunities that you're taking on where are you going? What kind of conferences are you going to?

Gigi: 2:06

I mean, I'm going all over. I can pull up my list that I have here and kind of share that with you. But I've done dozens of opportunities to do speaking over the past few years, just this year alone. I'm. I'm heading to VidCon in June. I'm speaking at Montclair State University, already spoke at Pace doing a speaking engagement tonight at a company called WeFranch. It's about franchising, a keynote at Endometriosis Foundation of America, a panel at Consumer electronics show, CES virtual events group. And then, I mean, I've been to Harvard. I've been to the white house, Columbia, Yale. So I've definitely done a lot of speaking in my years as a creator, and I'm really excited to spill the tea on that.

Dustin: 2:52

Awesome. And. I've seen your amazing career throughout the, your LinkedIn profile, your, you've got 27, 000 followers on there and so many more across other channels and you're speaking is maybe your best attribute in terms of like lead generation for what you do. And at. Host of influence. Can you tell us a little bit more about your company and who you're serving there?

Gigi: 3:22

Yeah. And I would say, I mean, it's pretty an even split between my brand deals and speaking engagements the speaking engagements, that's where people maybe. They have that discovery about me if they've never heard of me before, or if they have heard of me, they get to know me on a deeper level. But with my personal social media accounts, obviously the potentials are limitless there. You could reach a dozen, a hundred, thousand, thousands, millions of people on social platforms. And I think that is a really great opportunity. Even if it's just for awareness. For hosts of influence. A company that I help creators learn how to diversify outside of social media. So I find the things that they like to do or that they want to do. For example, if I have a creator who's an actress and she really wants to get her foot in the door, how do we build her socials in a way that helps her either get picked for acting opportunities and or lead her kind of through the industry? For a creator who maybe has a large audience, how do we write a book proposal and start working on getting. Your content out there as a potential author. If you want to do public speaking How do you just get your first public speaking engagement if you want to simply get more credibility? How do you land press and that is what host of influence is in the business of doing i'm not here to Teach you how to go viral with a get rich quick kind of thing I actually think playing the long term game is so much more important than playing the short term game, which is going viral. And I just think building your brand long term is what's going to help you survive. And use your social media as the vehicle to propel your business instead of using your social media as the main source of income for your business.

Dustin: 5:09

Gotcha. Awesome. And the clients you're taking on in that capacity, do they have to be at a certain level to work with them? It sounds like you're doing some handholding and some coaching, like they have to be to a certain level before you're working with them, right?

Gigi: 5:23

Yeah, I think the goal would be to simply just like have people who are already making money on social media, but maybe they're stuck. Again, like my goal is not To help you go viral. My goal is to help you understand how to pitch to brands to land partnerships anywhere from like having a thousand followers to like over a hundred K. And believe it or not, some people with those numbers just do not land partnerships because they don't understand the art of it or they've never been exposed to it or the method that they're using isn't working. Which is why I ultimately. Decided to launch host of influence and the threshold right now. I mean, it's really dependent upon the client's need. It's a very individual based program, but as I grow, it probably is going to become more cohort based programs that I can grow and scale at a much higher level.

Dustin: 6:17

Great. And is there a community aspect as well beyond your coaching?

Gigi: 6:22

There will be. It's not really there yet.

Dustin: 6:25

Okay. It's a work in progress. Gotcha.

Gigi: 6:27

Yeah.

Dustin: 6:28

Awesome. All right. And our topic of the day here is storytelling. That'll turn cold outreach into paid partnerships. And I'm really interested in picking your brain. And we were talking beforehand before this, we started here that you're not monster fan of affiliate marketing, which. Is fine with me, like every influencer and creator out there deserves to get paid for their time and efforts and marketing can be unfair in that kind of concept. So we're going to go through the pros and cons of what you do with your message to the folks that you're working with. So let's start off small and talk about storytelling. What's your style? Like, how did you craft the storytelling? Methodology that you've got today

Gigi: 7:17

Part of it is inherent to the fact that I got a bachelor's of fine art and we are forced to show Don't tell instead of traditional people on the internet do tell that's all they do. That's all they do They just talk and talk me. That's the story. But what you need to do is obviously Use the basics of storytelling. Have a hook. Understand who your target audience is. Do you want somebody to resonate with a photo or a video or just like a catchy headline? The other day I posted something about like, I don't gatekeep, so here's how I prepare for interviews. And in the caption, that's where. I spelled the T and I included all those juicy details, but my framework is really, and always has been about being authentic and authenticity. And what I mean by that is essentially my ability to transparently storytell. And I really think that's all. Word authentic really means since it's so widely overly used when you say I'm looking for an authentic creator What you're looking for is somebody who's being transparent and or being vulnerable you're not necessarily looking for somebody who's Authentic and maybe all they do is post like their outfits of the day because that's not very Authentic or vulnerable in my opinion. What that is That's a certain kind of content and maybe if the creator also does blog style content You'll see more of their personality, but my content has always been coming at an angle where I'm talking about Anything from women's health to helping content creators, and I really like to drop the BS I like to make sure that I'm doing as much as I can to help elevate other Creators because I think every creator should win and like you said get paid to be creating content

Dustin: 10:09

Excellent. And you're coaching style. You're teaching the folks that you're working with to do the same. And one of those big questions that come up is what kind of brands are you working with? And do they align with your message and methodology? So how would you go about deciding whether or not to work with a brand? What are some of those things that you look for?

Gigi: 10:34

So I've worked with hundreds of brands over the past couple of years, and I feel very fortunate to have been able to work with some of the brands that I've worked with. And I think at the end of the day, it comes down to like the opportunity and the opportunity cost. What is going to be what position are you going to be in if you decline this brand deal? Financially, because the truth of the matter is, Most creators, I think it's about 94 percent of content creators are making under 100, 000 a year. And if you live in a city like New York or LA, that can be a very challenging salary to live on as a self employed person. Aside from that, I think, all that to say, like, if you have to take a brand deal just because they're offering a lot of money, and maybe, and my hope would be that these creators that are saying yes to those kinds of brand deals are using the product, then it's an authentic review. But we have to remember every single freelance artist who has made a production or commercial about A specific product does not have to be a lover of that product. And I think that's kind of where the line gets blurred with influence influencers, content creators, right? We assume that their endorsement is. A direct reflection of them as an individual and I think there is still some ambiguity up there and I think the creators that are more UGC creators that don't put their faces in content or if they do they You know, they're really just doing UGC to pump out As much as possible. Those creators are not necessarily endorsing the content. But when an influencer or content creator puts it on their page, I think there's definitely that important distinction to keep in mind. And yeah, I mean, as long as you have used the product and you like the product or you find it valuable, I think that It's worthwhile.

Dustin: 12:25

Okay. Excellent. And can you tell us a little bit more about what happens when you do like a brand and you decide you want to work with them? Is this a situation where you reach out and create a proposal to work with them on some kind of spade paid sponsorship?

Gigi: 12:42

Like that's. A way that it works. Other times they'll just come inbound and they'll be like, GG, we want to work with you. This is what we had in mind. I go back and forth. I say, okay, this is what I have in mind. Does you know what your scope of work fit my budget or vice versa? And it's just a bunch of negotiating.

Dustin: 13:00

Okay. Have you found that brands that approach you turn out to be a better working relationship than brands that you approach to, to work on a sponsorship basis?

Gigi: 13:13

No, I don't think there is any effect.

Dustin: 13:16

No effect there? Okay, gotcha. It's, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, right?

Gigi: 13:21

Yeah.

Dustin: 13:22

In your opinion, Lyra, like Do you feel it's better to be the approacher or be approached by brands? What's more beneficial to you as the stellar teller here?

Gigi: 13:34

I don't think it matters. I really don't. I think as long as you are landing a brand deal and you get to the stage of negotiation, it really doesn't matter the method to the madness. I've been on both sides where I've pitched ideas and landed partnerships, and I've been on the other side where Partnerships have been offered to me and then I negotiate with them to, match my rate or get the scope of work under control. I Don't think it matters either which way.

Dustin: 14:00

Okay. Gotcha So let's say you lock into a deal and you guys agree on your terms What are your steps on working with that brand? And second part of that question, what can the brand managers do to help you be successful here?

Gigi: 14:17

I think one of the most challenging things in working with brands is when you get a brief and you tell them what you're going to do and then you do it and then they change their mind and you have to go back and revise. And so it usually the way that I mitigate this kind of Dilemma would be by having a zoom call and some people really don't like that because you know getting on a call can kind of Be exhausting and it's just a little overwhelming sometimes to be on zoom calls all day doing this But at the same time I think it can really Stop the back and forth from getting too long and it can make sure everybody's on the same page before production even starts because Let's say for example if you film a brand deal and you're wearing one outfit and your hair is a certain way and then You film it and then the brand changes their mind and you have to go back and redo some of that you basically have to Simulate the same experience. And so how can you do that? Obviously, sometimes if you're filming on location, that can be really challenging. But if you're filming in your home office, it's obviously less of a challenge. So you just have to think of those little tweaks. And that's obviously the big difference when you're hiring a commercial producer who is going on location. There's one shot. This is the footage that we get and the final asset will be produced Whereas content creators, I feel like there's almost an assumption that we can do anything for brands on the drop of a hat And I just don't think that is fully fair so a lot of the times i'll bake in edit clauses where they say, there's only one or two rounds of revisions because sometimes brands will just go back and forth and back and forth on the revisions and Again, that can be really exhausting.

Dustin: 16:01

For sure. Another great thing about the zoom call is you can record that and you can have a note taker and document, Hey, this is what we decided on. And if they ever come back with that revision of, or they want to do it a different way, you've got this proof that has this in that. So getting that in stone, that's a really good choice. And what do you do when brands come to you and they would much rather have a, an affiliate. Deal rather than a paid sponsorship. What is your way of handling that in the nicest way possible?

Gigi: 16:35

Yeah. I typically tell them like, Hey, thank you so much for reaching out right now. I'm not focusing my effort as a content creator on affiliate marketing. If they want to know why the step. That I would take further is a lot of times I create content and whether it is boosted or not a lot of the time it will not generate the amount of income that I require for a paid partnership to endorse your company. Therefore, it's not going to be worth my time. And so again, something I know we mentioned before, which is I don't think every content creator is meant to be a converter and that may be a hot take or not But not every content creator is going to convert a lot of times you'll have people that are just on social media sharing their wins and those people are Not posting links to things. And so if a brand came to them and said, we want you to convert for us, the creator or the people on the brand side should automatically know who they are targeting before they approach them with an affiliate deal, because I'm pretty sure there's tracking data and it's obvious. And I know a metric that a lot of brands request is link clicks for stories. And just because somebody clicks a link, that doesn't mean that they're going to convert the link. And if you get hundreds or thousands of link clicks, you might get a handful of purchases. And even then, if, we're talking about, like water bottles for Stanley's and five people buy a Stanley and the Stanley's 45 bucks I mean, you're not really getting that much of a commission when it's set up to be three to five percent For most of these programs and so I just personally don't think it compensates creators for their time Obviously, there's exceptions to the rule. I'm not you know in any way I just personally have found that it just does not compensate me specifically, but that's also because of my positioning and brands that come to me for affiliate marketing, either the product has to be a high ticket product that aligns with my values. For example, like, air purifiers, water purifiers that are, very aligned with the chronic health narrative that I kind of work within and or any tech products I use but otherwise it just really is not a fit and I'm not a fashion creator. I'm not a home creator. That's where I know a lot of the money is made for those creators. And I'm just not a fit for that.

Dustin: 18:59

That's a great point. Influencers traditionally are at that top of the funnel, right? We're brand recognition. And then there are other closers in the affiliate game that we rely on in the affiliate channel, but influencers, they have their place of getting that brand. Or that potential customer in the door to start off and then being retargeted in different kinds of fashions to close that deal. But I totally agree with you on that concept. That is something that I want to bring up. It's a great segue into our sponsor of the day, and that is inflection. We have personalized funnels over at inflection that will help influencers convert more with co branded landing pages, discount codes for the influencers A quote for them about why they like the product. Go to dustinhowes. com slash inflection and go check them out. Now, in terms of your thoughts on something that's super hot in the news, and that is Honeygate. I don't know if you've watched the videos about Honey being one of the disruptors of stealing commissions and actually stealing money out of pocket of influencers. In the back end they come in, they buy the brand partnership, but in ultimately like they ended up taking money out of the pockets of influencers in the long run, because they're taking that last click away from some of the folks that are working on an affiliate commission. What are your thoughts on Honeygate? Do you have you been following this very much?

Gigi: 20:32

I followed it very loosely, but to be honest with you, like, I mean, from the bat, it doesn't sound great, but I don't know that much about it because, again, I'm not really affected by it, but, like I said, I know about it I think at the end of the day, this is a reason why I think banking on traditional partnerships is valuable because it guarantees that you get money instead of running into a situation where you might get money based on your content. And that is again, why I, one reason why I would encourage creators to fall under that. And also, there are opportunities from brands where it's a hybrid. And I think hybrid models are great. And Still, though, a lot of the time with these hybrid models, I will see significantly lower rates, a couple hundred dollars here, a couple hundred dollars there, plus the affiliate potential and some other models that I've been seeing that are kind of fascinating is where certain agencies will actually boost organic content that have affiliate links to drive significant affiliate revenue from them. Thank you. Influencer's platforms, and then they split the income on like a, 70 30 or 50 50 split with the creator based on the amount of income, and I just thought that was fascinating, again, I don't think I'm the kind of creator that would be a fit for that, but somebody who does home or fashion content definitely Would do what with that,

Dustin: 21:55

and that is fascinating. I'd love to hear that. Would love to hear a little bit more about why don't you consider yourself in that closer space? Is it the brands that you're working with or the niche industries that you're in?

Gigi: 22:07

Like yeah, niche industries, but again, like I just. I just don't really find it productive and I don't like to chance when I'm getting income in, especially if I put effort into producing a video that takes me days or hours to create. And, or if I'm flying across the country to create a video, I am not going to bank on some commission that I may make. I will want a budget to produce that and also take up the landmark space on my account.

Dustin: 22:38

Okay, great. Great. All right. Let's talk about what's next for you. What have you got coming up in terms of storytelling?

Gigi: 22:46

I am doing a bunch of public speaking. I have tomorrow I'm doing a webinar with a company called Graphy. So I can send you the link to that on Wednesday, the 26th of February. I'm doing some public speaking at some state universities this summer. rest of the year, going to VidCon potentially Social Media Week here in New York City doing Endometriosis Foundation, closing keynote, and so I'm really excited to be doing a lot more public speaking, and I'm currently working on finishing my book proposal right now.

Dustin: 23:20

Book, okay. Tell us more about that. What, you have a new book coming out?

Gigi: 23:25

Yeah. That's going to, details TBD. You can follow along on my LinkedIn journey, my Instagram journey, my TikTok journey with producing this book. And it's going to be all about living with chronic health issues. If that's of interest to you at all, make sure that you Follow along.

Dustin: 23:43

All right. And that brings me to my last point of how do we connect? I found it pretty easy to connect with you on LinkedIn. That's where we

Gigi: 23:50

got

Dustin: 23:51

established. But any other ways you want to be connected?

Gigi: 23:55

No, you could connect with me on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Snapchat. My handle is It's Gigi Robinson Everywhere. My info can be found by Googling my name. Gigi Robinson, and I'm pretty responsive. So if you have questions, feel free to DM me. I, again, I want to make a disclaimer. I understand the value of affiliate marketing. I think affiliate marketing has its place in marketing, but as you said, influencers are really at the top of the funnel for that awareness. And for the creators that have dived deep into creating income off of that's great, but that is not where I am at.

Dustin: 24:31

Okay. Hey, it's not for everybody. I love your perspective. One final question here, though, like when a brand approaches you this is more for like the affiliate managers out there that are listening and they want to learn more about the best ways to approach an influencer and creator like yourself. How do you like to be approached? What gets your attention and gets you to respond?

Gigi: 24:55

Obviously budget. Is the big thing. If you have like a couple of grand to spend, that's great. Let's come up with something that's productive that is going to be true to me and my platforms, but also shares your brand mission. For example, like, a partnership that I may do with a brand like Squarespace, just as an example, I would talk about how, like, I literally have been on Squarespace since I was like, 10 years old when I made my first website and I am a tried and true Squarespace user. I would never partner with a brand like Wix or other website builders because I am so hardcore on Squarespace. All that to say, like I could talk about the evolution of my website. The literal, if you open my Squarespace dashboard, you will see all of the last. Websites that I've made and it's kind of hilarious to go back and look at those. But I could talk about that. I could talk about personal branding with it. I could talk about highlighting a specific feature with them. So it's not just about, Hey, you Squarespace. It's like, here's my story using Squarespace and how I built my business using this. Platform. And maybe again, there's a product launch for them in there. That always allowing the creator to come to you with that unique idea will always perform better than if you are simply just giving them a script to read or, verbatim things to say, because at the end of the day, like their audience will realize that they're just doing an ad. And I've actually even seen a trend where content creators are now disclaiming before sharing their ads, so they're saying hey, I have an ad break coming up Please engage with it. This is how I make money. Even if you just tap on a link or a story you know doing this is really important which again it kind of fabricates the whole reasoning, behind these programs and also with ads are supposed to be You know, organic pieces of content that convert and instead they're now piece of content people purposely scroll past and creators are disclaiming to their audience to click in. And do that so that they can keep doing what they do best, which is create so long term if you work with a creator Collaborating on ideas that align and obviously that are compliant with ftc guidelines All of that is really important.

Dustin: 27:08

Oh great Bits of information there and suggestions. So what I heard altogether is I've got budget and you have creative freedom. And that's the way to get a response from you. Okay.

Gigi: 27:22

Yes.

Dustin: 27:24

Awesome. Thank you so much for your time, Gigi. We appreciate you being here and educating the audience for those out there that are working with brands. Keep on recruiting and we'll see you out there. Take care.

Gigi: 27:38

All right. Thanks.